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DNA Code Indicates Creator

KCfromNC

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The quotes that are used and don't mention a creator must be assumed to be of atheistic sources.

Today I learned that the tax code and cookbooks are both assumed to be atheistic sources - after all, neither of them reference god(s) when talking about their particular subjects.

Is the creationist view of god so small that it disappears if it isn't constantly mentioned?
 
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bhsmte

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Come to think of it, my computer manual doesnt mention god. My manual for my car doesnt mention god. My instruction book for my television and refrigerator dont mention god. They all must have been designed and assembled by atheists.
 
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Speedwell

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Is the creationist view of god so small that it disappears if it isn't constantly mentioned?
IDists like a god who tinkers--maybe it's Tinker Belle.
 
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Loudmouth

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Come to think of it, my computer manual doesnt mention god. My manual for my car doesnt mention god. My instruction book for my television and refrigerator dont mention god. They all must have been designed and assembled by atheists.

Just looked at the buttons on my phone. No mention of God whatsoever. Must be one of those atheist phones.
 
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TagliatelliMonster

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I'm guessing you didn't mean it this way but did you really mean to say science is at odds with common sense?

I can't speak for Speedwell, but I'ld like to interject here.
The answer is a resounding YES, in a sense.

For quite a simple reason, actually...

What is "common sense"? Common sense, I'ld say, is the practice of drawing logical conclusions by using rational reasoning.

For example, given the average density of rock, the density of a squishy human body and the effects of smacking such a body against rock at different speeds... it's rather common sense to say that when you smack into a wall, there's high chance that you'll hurt yourself. And how much you potentially hurt yourself will be directly related to the speed at the moment of impact. As speed goes up, you'll also reach a point where you'll have near zero chances of surviving that impact.

All common sense. But why?
You can only reach that conclusion through common sense, because you have knowledge about:
- the density of rock
- the density of a human body
- the laws of motion
- the effects of smacking against a wall

If you don't have this knowledge, you might reach a different conclusion wich would turn out pretty bad.

Now, what is science (the verb)?
It is the exploration and study of reality. It is the quest for gaining knowledge and understanding about the phenomena of reality. Nearly every big breakthrough in most, if not all, fields of natural science, defied our "common sense" and "intuition".

Our ancestors observed the sun come up at one side, move accross the sky and set at the other side, while the earth feels pretty much stationary. With the knowledge that they had, common sense lead them to believe that the sun orbits the earth.

So yes, doing science requires you to be prepared / be open to having your "common sense" seriously challenged.

And it gets worse. It certainly seems that, as we dig deeper, especially in physics, our "common sense" looks more and more useless.

As a theoretical physicist whose name I forgot once said: "Quantum physics is absolutely ridiculous. Really. It's completely absurd. And you know what I loath the most about it? That it actually works."


In short: common sense can only build on what is currently already known / understood. Common sense can not take into account that which is not yet known or understood.

If "common sense" would work, we would have no need for the scientific method.

Or as Lawrence Krauss once said: "Our 'common sense' evolved to avoid being eaten by tigers in Africa. Not to understand quantum mechanics."
 
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TagliatelliMonster

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The quotes that are used and don't mention a creator must be assumed to be of atheistic sources.

And a-alien source. And a-unicorn sources. And a-santa sources. And a-anything-your-imagination-can-produce source.

Otherwise theory would at least acknowledge the possibility of an ID.

Why would any theory acknowledge anything for which zero evidence exists?


Tell me, can modern astronomy be described as neutral in its depiction of the universe?

It can be described as scientific.

Or can it be inferred from its general approach to be promoting atheism?

No. If it "promotes" anything, it is the search for knowledge according to the scientific method. It is not the fault of science that god doesn't show up in the processes that it studies.


Just as I think it is to tag any source that uses that same anti ID modus operandi under the same category.

Science?
 
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Radrook

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That's because those books aren't about a subject that is very relevant to an ID. So one assumes that no mention of an ID will be made because it is irrelevant in the context of tax books or other such literatuire. That is a silly comparison or false analogy.
 
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Subduction Zone

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Whoosh!
 
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Radrook

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First, science ceases to be science when it becomes prejudicially myopic and refuses to seriously consider an alternative because of anti religious sentiments. Science is objective and once it loses that objectivity it cannot be called science any longer.

Second, yes, a view that is constantly ignoring an very compelling alternate explanation and chooses to focus on its opposite is promoting its opposite via cunning omission.

Third, there certainly is plenty of very compelling evidence which is tagged as non-evidence by atheists because they cannot stomach the idea of an ID.

Finally, your comparison of the ID with such things as a spaghetti monster is a false analogy since there is no evidence for a spaghetti monster whereas the evidence for the ID- for which you claim a seemingly inherent incapacity to see, is virtually everywhere.
 
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Speedwell

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Finally, your comparison of the ID with such things as a spaghetti monster is a false analogy since there is no evidence for a spaghetti monster...
You don't think the Spaghetti Monster could be the one tinkering with those biological structures which evolution can't produce?
... whereas the evidence for the ID- for which you claim a seemingly inherent incapacity to see, is virtually everywhere.
Be careful, if you wind up claiming that everything is designed you are in danger of becoming a theistic evolutionist.
 
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Subduction Zone

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There are no anti-religious sentiments. There is simply a lack of evidence for your beliefs. As you should know by now by your continued failure at presenting any.

Second, yes, a view that is constantly ignoring an very compelling alternate explanation and chooses to focus on its opposite is promoting its opposite via cunning omission.

Why do you keep making false accusations. You have been given the definition of scientific evidence by more than one person and yet even you can't show any and you believe in this nonsense.

Third, there certainly is plenty of very compelling evidence which is tagged as non-evidence by atheists because they cannot stomach the idea of an ID.

Really? Then once again, why don't you post any? And no false accusations against others. One can get in trouble for that. The definition of scientific evidence is extremely clear. Do you have any problem understanding any of it?



There is no evidence for your beliefs either so by the standards you listed it is a perfectly good analogy.

One more time, evidence please.
 
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dad

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So why did you assume that I did not? Also, what is flawed about the argument I presented?
When you said "There is genetic material in bone and there are elements present in the soil or earth which constitute our bodies."

That sounded like someone was claiming man evolved from the dirt or something. Apparently it actually refers to how man has stuff from the dust of the earth in him. Fine.


Or did you expect him to go into fine scientific details concerning his procedure to a people who would be baffled by the details if he did?
This sounded like someone claiming in a round about way that man evolved from the dirt by scientific old age processes or something. As long as we all have the context that what you are saying is from the standpoint of an actual believer, it would be easier to get it right.
 
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TagliatelliMonster

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First, science ceases to be science when it becomes prejudicially myopic and refuses to seriously consider an alternative because of anti religious sentiments.

As has been explained to you countless times by now, the reason science doesn't consider supernatural shenannigans or otherwise mysterious "designers" has nothing to do with religion and everything with there not being a shred of testable evidence or testable hypothesis.


Science is objective and once it loses that objectivity it cannot be called science any longer.

Indeed. Which is exactly why ID doesn't qualify as science.

Second, yes, a view that is constantly ignoring an very compelling alternate explanation and chooses to focus on its opposite is promoting its opposite via cunning omission.

As has been explained to you countless times, there is nothing compelling (or even "alternative") about your ID model. And after being asked countless times, you have completely failed to show there is.

Third, there certainly is plenty of very compelling evidence which is tagged as non-evidence by atheists because they cannot stomach the idea of an ID.

Not "atheists". But scientists. Plenty of which are theists.
Ken Miller and Francis Collins come to mind.


Claiming it, does not make it so.
 
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KCfromNC

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That's because those books aren't about a subject that is very relevant to an ID.

The fact that a serious science text doesn't mention fringe political movements is a feature, not a bug.

So one assumes that no mention of an ID will be made because it is irrelevant in the context of tax books or other such literatuire. That is a silly comparison or false analogy.

Here you're pretending that something which a conservative political group made up to try and get around the establishment clause is relevant to actual science. I see no reason to.
 
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KCfromNC

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First, science ceases to be science when it becomes prejudicially myopic and refuses to seriously consider an alternative because of anti religious sentiments.

That's nice, but what does it have to do with ID or other forms of creationism? They were considered and rejected because they're not science.
 
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KCfromNC

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You don't think the Spaghetti Monster could be the one tinkering with those biological structures which evolution can't produce?

This is one of my favorite parts of the ID story. We're supposed to pretend it is a generic, non religious ID. But as soon as anything other than the American Conservative Protestant Christian God is mentioned as a possibility ID supporters get all defensive. I understand that they have to pretend they're not pitching 19th century modernist religious doctrine as science but they don't seem to be very good at hiding it.
 
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Vaccine

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That it was analogous to human language was exactly the point of the paper.

Isomorphism: meaning"equal," and morphosis, meaning "to form" or "to shape."
Isomorphism -- from Wolfram MathWorld

Equal to form and identical are not the same. I didn't say they were identical or the result of common decelopment. I said exactly what they said, it was more than just a metaphor.
 
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TagliatelliMonster

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That it was analogous to human language was exactly the point of the paper.

Do you understand what an analogy is?
Because if you do, then I wonder what point you are trying to make with all of this.
 
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Vaccine

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It could if it was built up a little bit at a time over millions of years with constant feedback.

Over the course of millions of years all this useless dna is produced, but conveniently stops when people exist to look for it?
Given the choice between a million happy coincidences and one intelligent agent at work, the latter requires less assumptions.
 
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