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discovering Christianity

awitch

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Is it possible for a person to discover the beliefs of the Christian faith without reading the Bible or being evangelized/witnessed/proselytized?

For example, if there was an isolated tribe of people living on an island somewhere which was undiscovered by any missionaries, and they never saw a Bible, how could they learn the beliefs required by the Christian faith?
 

seashale76

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There have been cases of people having visions and then eventually discovering Christianity. However, considering that we believe that God is merciful, if there are people out there who have gone their entire lives without ever having heard of Christ, then we believe that they will be judged on what they've done with the information they have. Only God knows a person's heart. We know where the Church is, only God knows where the Church is not.
 
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ebia

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Well they might work out some truths about the creator God, but Christianity is fundamentally grounded in an historic event - the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth - and it's a bit hard to see how anybody would find out about that without being told.
 
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dead2self

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We all know enough of God through His revelation of Himself in nature to reject Him and condemn ourselves. No innocents will be in hell as there are no innocents (speaking of adults here). As for salvation, that requires hearing or reading the word and trusting in Jesus. This is all clearly taught in the Bible. No one will enter heaven but through Jesus Christ. And they cannot know of Him unless they hear of Him.

So as for your example, while God could reveal Himself directlty to them, it is by no means normal. And I am guessung it sidesteps your point. In general, the tribesfolk know enough to reject God and be condemned for their own sins but cannot learn enough to have the required faith.

Of course this sounds awful. Here the doctrine of election and also God's sovereignty come into it. God knows whom He will save. And any such on a remote island in an undiscovered tribe WILL be witnessed to somehow. God will get a missionary there. He does not fail to save any He elects.

And let me beat seashale to it. Not all Christians believe this. But I can assure you it is well grounded in scripture.
 
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awitch

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I hadn't considered the aspect of being saved in the original question, but now that you mention it, it sounds odd that when so much is riding on the proper belief and given the punishment for not holding it, that everything that needs to be known is not inherent by observing the natural world.
 
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Hog Red

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The next time I get a speeding ticket I will plead ignorance of the law. I'll let you know how that turns out. Would that be fair if i was excempt from laws just because i was ignorant of them. I dont think so.

Check out Romans 1 verses 18 thru 32 and read about God's wrath against mankind. If you dont understand it, dont worry it's a letter to Christians.

Good question though
 
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awitch

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This makes sense...ignorance is not a valid defense. Otherwise, wouldn't it make more sense to hide the Bible and not evangelize?
 
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unkern

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In the book "Revolution in world missions" one of the missionaries is put in jail for baptizing 9 new believers. They ended up stripping him of his bible and putting him in a dark cell with no food for 5 years. The fellow prisoners would slip food into his cell and God showed him the new testament in images.

Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.

All creation testifies to The lord our God.

So yes they can
 
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dead2self

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Everything that needs to be known about God's nature is know by all. The problem is that we all deny God and do our own thing, violating our own consciences which is what condemns us. No one goes to hell for not believing in Jesus. A sinless person needs no saviour. Everyone who ends up in hell goes there becaus of sin. We all deserve this punishment. None of us deserve the grace of salvation. Because of this, limiting the knowlege of how to be saved is not unjust.

I may indeed seem odd to have the revelation of the means of salavation in a book not everyone will see, but as I said, everyone who God has elected will get the message one way or another.

I will say, however, that without a sovereign God who elects who will be saved and saves whom he elects, this system does indeed have many problems.
 
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Lotuspetal_uk

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Is it possible for a person to discover the beliefs of the Christian faith without reading the Bible or being evangelized/witnessed/proselytized?

To discover the existence of God and enter a personal relationship with Him then I would say yes as I have gone through that process.

In my case, what happened next was that I had to learn more and this was where I had to seek out those who followed the path I needed to go on. This was when I bought my first Bible and began to visit various churches to check out what they were all about. I actually wanted to find out about Islam! But I decided to be open-minded enough to see what Christianity was all about since I knew absolutely nothing about it other than negative stereotypes.

For example, if there was an isolated tribe of people living on an island somewhere which was undiscovered by any missionaries, and they never saw a Bible, how could they learn the beliefs required by the Christian faith?

I am currently looking at this again to refresh my memory. A trusted online friend of mine reminded me of John 10:16 in reference to the scenerio you'd mentioned. This verse states:

" I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd" (John 10:16)

Thus far - and going off my own experience - I hold that such a people will sense a change in their hearts and minds which will point to a personal relationship with God. It may mean that they desire to know more in which case, through the grace of God, this is the point when they get discovered by the outside world, etc to receive more info.
 
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awitch

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Too anecdotal.

All creation testifies to The lord our God.

That depends on how literally you take the Bible. What about when empirical evidence conflicts with the Bible? (Not looking to start an evolution or abiogenisis debate).
 
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awitch

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Everything that needs to be known about God's nature is know by all.

What makes you think so? That's a convenient way to remove responsibility from God, but I'm not sure I follow it. For example, an atheist doesn't believe any god exists, not, "I acknowledge gods existence and know all about it, but I choose to not believe because I'm a rebel". I don't see how other religions would exist or even different denominations of Christianity, or even this very forum if people already had an inherent understanding of God.

If you meant that everyone has the potential to have a non-specific spiritual experience, then I would tend to agree, even though no one is guaranteed to have one.

A sinless person needs no saviour.

I agree

Everyone who ends up in hell goes there becaus of sin. We all deserve this punishment. None of us deserve the grace of salvation. Because of this, limiting the knowlege of how to be saved is not unjust.

I don't understand how anyone could have such a bleak and self-condemning outlook. Everyone deserves to suffer in hell for all eternity? For what crime? Because someone ate a fruit of knowledge when God told them not to thousands of years ago? Please help me understand this.

I may indeed seem odd to have the revelation of the means of salavation in a book not everyone will see, but as I said, everyone who God has elected will get the message one way or another.

You seem to imply that God does not want everyone to get His message, but they will suffer in hell anyway...
 
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dead2self

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The book of Romans makes me think so. It is quite clear there. Of course, I cannot expect you to accept waht it says, as the news is not good for you if you chose not to believe. I offered my view as a Christian response to your questions but do not expect you to necessarily share them.

As for an inherent understanding of God taking away different denominations etc. that is not the kind of knowlege we all have. We basically konw there is a God, and the difference between good and evil. We also have a ingraned sense of justice. We feel the need for evil to be repaid. These alone are enough to condemn us.

If you meant that everyone has the potential to have a non-specific spiritual experience, then I would tend to agree, even though no one is guaranteed to have one.

Not quite what I meant. THe above should clarify what I did mean.



No, no one alive today will go to hell because Adam ate teh fruit. Those going to hell do so for their own sin. We all do deserve this. We all have sinned. Now to understand this I must briefly digress into the nature of sin.

What sin is is disobediance to God's will basically. When we are dishonest at all we sin. When we fail to place God first in our lives we sin. These sins condemn us no less than murder. This is because the act comitted is not so important as whom it is comitted against. Every time we sin, we sin not only against others, but also against God. As God is so great, even the smallest sin is dire indeed. Now we need to understand just how God views sin. I'll try to be brief and break it down into several quick points.

1. We were created for God to glorify Him.
2. God considers us as His bride. This illustration is used reapeatedly and in fact the institution of marriage has as it's main point to showcase the love between Jesus (the Groom) and His church (the bride).
3. When we turn from our Husband God to pursue the pleasures of this world (that is when we sin) we are in fact engaging in harlotry.
4. In addition to considering our sin harlotry, God sees it as an affront to His very nature and as absolute filth.

I hope that goes a small way to more clearly defining sin. The beauty of the Gospel is that Christ bore the ppunishment for our sins and we are thus made pure and clean in God's eyes.

You seem to imply that God does not want everyone to get His message, but they will suffer in hell anyway...

One of the hardest doctrines to talk about, as it is one of the most offensive. So much so that many even in the church reject it, though I can show it clearly from teh Bible.

Basically it boils down to God being Sovereign. He made everything, sustain everything and everything is under His control. No exceptions. Now He made vessels destined for grace (those people He will save) and vessels destined for wrath (those people He will not save). Both are for His glory. He will gain glory for the grace He shows to some, and He will gain glory for jusly punishing those who reject His Son. God has chosen, from before the foundations of the earth were laid, those He will save and those He will not. It's a hard truth for us to come to terms with, but a truth none the less.
 
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