Hey
Thanks!
Thanks!
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Thanks HeatherJay,HeatherJay said:The biggest difference is probably the importance place on the idea of entire sanctification...it's foundational to the Nazarene doctrine, not so much with the Methodists.
Nazarene's also baptise infants if the parents desire to do so....some parents choose to only have their children dedicated (the infant baptism ceremony without the water). And baptism upon "conversion" to the Nazarene faith is not at all required. Believer's baptism is encouraged, though.Nova Scotian Boy said:Also i know that i believe that Nazarenes Adult Baptise upon conversion rather then Methodist infant Baptism, or so thats how it as explained to me from a freind of mine who is one.
HeatherJay said:The biggest difference is probably the importance place on the idea of entire sanctification...it's foundational to the Nazarene doctrine, not so much with the Methodists.
I didn't say that Methodists don't have a belief in sanctification...only that there's a larger emphasis placed on the idea of a second work of grace in the Nazarene faith.snerkel said:As stated in the Twenty-Five Articles of Religion Methodist
Article XXV -
Of Sanctification
Sanctification is that renewal of our fallen nature by the Holy Ghost, received through faith in Jesus Christ, whose blood of atonement cleanseth from all sin; whereby we are not only delivered from the guilt of sin, but are washed from its pollution, saved from its power, and are enabled, through grace, to love God with all our hearts and to walk in his holy commandments blameless.
HeatherJay said:I didn't say that Methodists don't have a belief in sanctification...
...only that there's a larger emphasis placed on the idea of a second work of grace in the Nazarene faith.
I'll copy and paste the bare bones version from the official Nazarene website.snerkel said:No offense, but I did not say you did.
In the Methodist church, we are taught that sanctification is a process that begins when we are born again. Through the enabling of the Holy Spirit we grow and mature, dying to self/sin, and become more alive in God.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by second work of grace. Can you explain that?
Nazarene Articles of Faith said:X. Entire Sanctification
Nazarene Articles of Faith said:13. We believe that entire sanctification is that act of God, subsequent to regeneration, by which believers are made free from original sin, or depravity, and brought into a state of entire devotement to God, and the holy obedience of love made perfect.
It is wrought by the baptism with the Holy Spirit, and comprehends in one experience the cleansing of the heart from sin and the abiding, indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, empowering the believer for life and service.
Entire sanctification is provided by the blood of Jesus, is wrought instantaneously by faith, preceded by entire consecration; and to this work and state of grace the Holy Spirit bears witness.
This experience is also known by various terms representing its different phases, such as "Christian perfection," "perfect love," "heart purity," "the baptism with the Holy Spirit," "the fullness of the blessing," and "Christian holiness."
14. We believe that there is a marked distinction between a pure heart and a mature character. The former is obtained in an instant, the result of entire sanctification; the latter is the result of growth in grace.
We believe that the grace of entire sanctification includes the impulse to grow in grace. However, this impulse must be consciously nurtured, and careful attention given to the requisites and processes of spiritual development and improvement in Christlikeness of character and personality. Without such purposeful endeavor one’s witness may be impaired and the grace itself frustrated and ultimately lost.
(Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:25-27; Malachi 3:2-3; Matthew 3:11-12; Luke 3:16-17; John 7:37-39; 14:15-23; 17:6-20; Acts 1:5; 2:1-4; 15:8-9; Romans 6:11-13, 19; 8:1-4, 8-14; 12:1-2; 2 Corinthians 6:14-7:1; Galatians 2:20; 5:16-25; Ephesians 3:14-21; 5:17-18, 25-27; Philippians 3:10-15; Colossians 3:1-17; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24; Hebrews 4:9-11; 10:10-17; 12:1-2; 13:12; 1 John 1:7, 9)
("Christian perfection," "perfect love": Deuteronomy 30:6; Matthew 5:43-48; 22:37-40; Romans 12:9-21; 13:8-10; 1 Corinthians 13; Philippians 3:10-15; Hebrews 6:1; 1 John 4:17-18
"Heart purity": Matthew 5:8; Acts 15:8-9; 1 Peter 1:22; 1 John 3:3
"Baptism with the Holy Spirit": Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:25-27; Malachi 3:2-3; Matthew 3:11-12; Luke 3:16-17; Acts 1:5; 2:1-4; 15:8-9
"Fullness of the blessing": Romans 15:29
"Christian holiness": Matthew 5:1-7:29; John 15:1-11; Romans 12:1-15:3; 2 Corinthians 7:1; Ephesians 4:17-5:20; Philippians 1:9-11; 3:12-15; Colossians 2:20-3:17; 1 Thessalonians 3:13; 4:7-8; 5:23; 2 Timothy 2:19-22; Hebrews 10:19-25; 12:14; 13:20-21; 1 Peter 1:15-16; 2 Peter 1:1-11; 3:18; Jude 20-21)
Nazarene statement of values said:God, who is holy, calls us to a life of holiness. We believe that the Holy Spirit seeks to do in us a second work of grace, called by various terms including "entire sanctification" and "baptism with the Holy Spirit"-cleansing us from all sin, renewing us in the image of God, empowering us to love God with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength, and our neighbors as ourselves, and producing in us the character of Christ. Holiness in the life of believers is most clearly understood as Christlikeness.
Because we are called by Scripture and drawn by grace to worship God and to love Him with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength, and our neighbors as ourselves, we commit ourselves fully and completely to God, believing that we can be "sanctified wholly," as a second crisis experience. We believe that the Holy Spirit convicts, cleanses, fills, and empowers us as the grace of God transforms us day by day into a people of love, spiritual discipline, ethical and moral purity, compassion, and justice. It is the work of the Holy Spirit that restores us in the image of God and produces in us the character of Christ.
I agree.ContraMundum said:My understanding is that both mainstream Methodist and Nazarene/Holiness churches believe in a second work of grace, just as Wesley taught in his famous "Plain Account of Christian Perfection", but that the emphasis is a little different in the Holiness churches (Wesleyan, Nazarene, Church of God etc).
According to my understanding, both groups agree that sanctification is initial, progressive and entire, but that entire sanctification can happen in an instant, that is, a second crisis experience or second work of grace. The holiness groups tend to emphasise that aspect more. However, there has been a difference of agreement on what form that takes scripturally. The debate seems to be focussed around whether or not Pentecost was a second work of grace on the disciples or the intial outpouring of grace on them. Both sides of the discussion have points, but I think that both are compatible with one another so it's really not a big deal.
HeatherJay said:Nazarene's also baptise infants if the parents desire to do so....some parents choose to only have their children dedicated (the infant baptism ceremony without the water). And baptism upon "conversion" to the Nazarene faith is not at all required. Believer's baptism is encouraged, though.
Hi, I'm Heather too and I'm also a Nazarene. And Yes, i was baptised as a baby.. but see that was more of my parents way of saying that they were going to make sure that I grew up knowing God and it was more of THEIR thing. After being saved, I was baptised again. Everything the other Heather has said is true about that. We enocourage it after being saved, but we do not believe it is necessary to get into Heaven. When we are baptised as a baby, it is by our parents choice not by our own. As an adult, being saved, we do it by our own choice... because we want the world to know that we belong to Christ!Filia Mariae said:Heather,
Sorry if I am totally off track here, but are you saying that Nazarene's would encourage an adult (or older child) who was baptized as an infant to be re-baptized upon their own personal acceptance of Christ?
Well, we don't believe in "re-baptism." But, we have people all the time who reaffirm their previous baptisms...but we recognize that one baptism is enough for God, and anything beyond that is for our own benefit.Filia Mariae said:Heather,
Sorry if I am totally off track here, but are you saying that Nazarene's would encourage an adult (or older child) who was baptized as an infant to be re-baptized upon their own personal acceptance of Christ?
That is basically what I said too. In my church, all they do is dedications. But the dedication is not waterless.. the pastor puts his hand in water and then on the babies head, just the same as when they do baptism of someone who physically cannot be submurged, such as my brother due to the surgeries he has had. But even for those who baptise, which I was baptised in the Nazarene church as an infant, that was more of my parents dedicating me to God. That's not a believer baptism.. the parents may be a believer. But when you do it after saved.. that is a believer baptism. So to be baptised as an infant and then again as an adult is not being re-baptised.HeatherJay said:Well, we don't believe in "re-baptism." But, we have people all the time who reaffirm their previous baptisms...but we recognize that one baptism is enough for God, and anything beyond that is for our own benefit.
Not all infants are baptised in our denomination...most are dedicated (without the water). Some parents choose not to dedicate/baptise at all. So, that's why I say that believer's baptism is encouraged. But, for those baptised as infants, they are encouraged to confirm their infant baptism once they've gotten to an age to make the choice on their own.
Also, another note, we don't believe that baptism is necessary for salvation...and when infants are baptised, it's done moreso as a plea for prevenient grace (the grace that goes before) and a symbolic gesture of giving the child to God than as a "guaranteed ticket to heaven."
Did I answer your question? I feel like I'm rambling a bit tonight...
Only reason I don't agree with that.. is because baptising a baby.. does not give them salvation.. they have to find that on their own. Of course, as infants, before the age of accountability.. they are going to go to Heaven no matter what. But, as an adult, they have to figure it out and want it on their own! I think that's why we only do dedications now. Although I agree that it is a means of grace and I believe that is the main reason parents do it. To us, it is more of a promise to raise our children in the eyes of God and help them to know God and to find their way.. it's also a promise the church makes to help raise that child to know God.ContraMundum said:I baptised my children not because it was my "thing" but because I believe it is God's work for my children, not my work for God. It wasn't a way to catch a religious buzz or some formal naming ceremony- it was because baptism is a means of grace, and I wanted my kids to be recipients of that.
Here's a good article from the Wesley Centre for Applied Theology that I thought my be useful for the discussion.
http://wesley.nnu.edu/wesleyan_theology/theojrnl/31-35/31-2-9.htm
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?