Differance between the Judgement Seat of Christ and the Great White throne of Judgem

GreenEyedLady said:

From what I gained from scriptures, the Judgement Seat of Christ is for the believers and the Great White Throne of Judgement is for the lost and unbelievers.
Anyone want to discuss these 2 differant places?
GEL

Click to expand...

You got it exactly right GEL!

that seams to be the usual intrepretation based on some quick googling.


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=judgment+seat+white+throne&btnG=Google+Search

The Judgement seat of Christ....

Question

My question comes from I Corinthians 3, where Paul’s talking about the Bema Judgment of Christ. And in v. 15, he tells about a Christian “whose work is burned up and he suffers loss, but he is saved, yet so as through fire.” Will you tell me a little bit about this Christian and how he fits into the lordship-salvation scheme?

Answer

We understand that when a person is saved, there is a total transformation. How do you know that? Because salvation is described in these terms, Galatians 2:20: “I am crucified with Christ.” Right? When we baptize these people, they go under the water, what does that symbolize? What? Death. When you’re crucified, what do you do? That kills you; you die. So, whatever you were when you were saved, what? Died. Galatians 2:20, “I am crucified with Christ.” “Nevertheless,” what happened? “I live.” What do we call that? Resurrection. We were buried with Him in baptism, and we’re risen with Him to walk in newness of life. So, salvation is death of the old, resurrection of the new. And as Arney said earlier, “If any man is in Christ, he is a new creation.”

Now, what then characterizes that new creation? First of all, that new creation is characterized by a new affection. You love God; you love Christ. If any man doesn’t love Christ, he’s anathema [condemned to hell]. So, a characteristic of salvation is, you love Christ. You don’t love Him as much as you should, but you love Him, right? Secondly, you hate sin. You don’t hate it as much as you ought to hate it, but you hate it. Thirdly, you desire to obey. So, the characteristic of a new life, then, is a love of Christ and God, a hatred of sin, and a desire to obey. Now, does that mean we always love like we should, we always hate sin like we should, and we always do what we should? No.

The truth of the matter is that our lives are going to be filled with a lot of things which will bring us no reward. Some things will bring us chastening. Some things are just neutral; they’re not moral--they’re just stuff that gets burned up. It isn’t that we’re going to be judged or punished; it’s just that when it comes to reward time, that’s sorted out. So, I believe that you’re a new creation: your faith will work, your love will labor, your hope will endure, you will be different--you will have different desires, different longings, different goals, different aspirations. But, you’ll still have in your life two things: sin and waste--just useless things. And when you come to the judgment seat of Christ, does the sin have to be dealt with there? Does it? No, why? Where was the sin dealt with? On the cross. So, we’re not talking about sin; that’s already dealt with. No condemnation, no issue.

But, when you get there, you’ve got what’s left of your life; the sin--that’s dealt with. What is left then is the righteous deeds--gold, silver, precious stones--and then the “stuff.” And when it comes time to reward you, the Lord will just consume the stuff, and what remains is the gold, silver, precious stones. That’s why, in a sense, it’s not only important that you avoid sin, it’s also important that you avoid waste in your life.

Remember Hebrews 12? In Hebrews 12, the writer says, “Lay aside”--for “we are encompassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses”--you know that? “Therefore, run the race…lay aside the sin and the weight which so easily besets us”--that’s in chapter 12.

He says, “Lay aside every encumbrance and the sin.” Well, encumbrance must be something other than sin, and what he is saying is, don’t clutter your life with needless stuff. So, you know, there are people who fill up--I call it people who fill up their life with trivia. It isn’t evil; it’s just insignificant. That’s the encumbrance. It’s like the illustration I used when I taught Hebrews was: now, you can run the 100-yard-dash with an overcoat if you want, but you’re not going to be very fast. And, when it comes to reward time, you’re going to be at the rear end. Why not junk the overcoat and run?

So I think what he is saying there is that at the judgment seat of Christ, even though we are redeemed and even though we are the children of God and even though our hearts have been changed and transformed and our desires are really right and we long to honor Christ, because we are still incarcerated in the unredeemed flesh, we can fill our lives with stuff that really has no eternal consequences. And that’s going to be just literally burned away. The fire here--know this--is not a fire of judgment. It’s just burning away the dross to purify the real stuff that is to be rewarded.

Source from: John MacArthur

Question

"Who is judged at the Great White Throne?"

Answer


Turn in your Bible to the 20th chapter of Revelation, and I really haven't put these in any other order than just to throw them in the Romans pile. I got a little pile here from Matthew, and some about prophecy (I always get a few of those), and some over here on dating. All of those of you who would like a date, see our college pastor, Allan Adidian (sp.), he may have another list of people who are waiting for someone like you, and we can match you all up, or our singles group might too.

But this question comes out Revelation 20, and it has to do, of course, what we studied about Romans--the judgment of the evil. In verse 11 of Revelation 20, "I saw a great white throne and Him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and heaven fled away, and there was found no place for them." Of course, this is God sitting on His throne in ultimate judgment. Christ is there as well because all judgment is committed unto Him. He sits in the Father's throne and so forth, from earlier in Revelation, and we know that as well from the Gospel of John.

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God." "Small and great" doesn't mean short and tall, it means insignificant and significant.

"And the books were opened." And people often ask the question, "Well, doesn't God know who's save and who's not saved? What does He have to have books for?"

Because, God is just, and God will not judge a person without manifesting the objective criteria for that judgment. So there is no question in the mind of anyone. God has kept the records. He knows every thought, and every word, and every deed ever done by every human being who ever lived, and it is all down so that judgment is on the basis of their works. He'll have the record and He will also have the Book of Life.

"And the dead were judged out of those things written in the books, according to their works." You see, works are the objective criteria which God uses.

"And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; death and Hades delivered up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works." And there you are again, you shouldn't have a problem with that, judgment is on the basis of works--ultimately.

"And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Now, I believe that this is a judgment of unbelievers. I do not believe that we see here believing people. People then say, "Then, why is the Book of Life here?" Simply because that is another criteria by which God judges. One, He will open all the books, which give all the records of all the deeds of all the ungodly. And then He will open up the Book of Life, and not only will all their deeds manifest their ungodliness, but their absence in the Book of Life will be the subjective criteria added to the objective of the list of the works of their life, that will condemn them forever.

Now the reason that I don't see believers here is because believers have already been judged, by this time. The judgment of works, that we know as the "Bema Judgment" (2 Corinthians 5, Romans 14:10-11). That judgment has already occurred before the Millennial period began--1,000 years prior to this. But this is the resurrection of the ungodly of all time. Now you say, "Does that mean that it is a literal resurrection?" Yes, John 5, Jesus said that there will be a resurrection, not only for those who will be raised to life, but those who will be raised to death as well. All people who have ever lived will be resurrected. They will receive a new body. Ours will be fit for heaven and God's eternal kingdom; theirs will be fit for hell.

People have said, "Is hell literal fire?" That's a very difficult question to answer. Jesus used that expression many, many times. I don't know how literal the fire is. I tend to think there will be some kind of very literal torment because there will be a real resurrection, and whatever kind of body they have it will be a body that can exist forever, and it can exist in a tormented state forever and never perish. I believe that this is the judgment of those unrighteous dead who will all be gathered at one moment in time, in the Great White Throne, and the record will be laid out and they will not have the works to make it, and they will not be in the Book of Life. If you are not in the Book of Life the only way you could get in is to have a perfect works record. Right? And nobody can do that, "For by the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified."

So, I believe that this is the unrighteous dead, who are then cast into the Lake of Fire. Believers have already had their judgment.


Source taken from: John MacArthur

BT said:

You got it exactly right GEL!

Click to expand...

Ditto. Is this only for Baptists to discuss. I don't know what and if I'm allowed to say anything anywhere anymore. I really don't. I'm afraid to say anything or voice opinions that might disagree with someone. Are those with Christian icons allowed to give opinions in the Baptist forum? I'm so confused anymore. Isn't that what we're all here for, to discuss and give opinions on different issues? I share many beliefs with Baptists. If all we're allowed to do is post "fellowship posts" in anything but our own little corner of the board, where's the discussion and opinions?

Lynn73 said:

Ditto. Is this only for Baptists to discuss. I don't know what and if I'm allowed to say anything anywhere anymore. I really don't. I'm afraid to say anything or voice opinions that might disagree with someone. Are those with Christian icons allowed to give opinions in the Baptist forum? I'm so confused anymore. Isn't that what we're all here for, to discuss and give opinions on different issues? I share many beliefs with Baptists. If all we're allowed to do is post "fellowship posts" in anything but our own little corner of the board, where's the discussion and opinions?

Click to expand...

The Christian icon is not a universal debate icon for the denomination forums.

This forum is specifically for Baptists/Anabaptist to debate. Others are able to post fellowship posts only. There is a forum for almost every denom so that each denom can debate amongst themselves without having outside views muddy the water even more.

What is considered a "fellowship post?" Just asking questions or saying hi? Or is giving of opinions allowed or is that considered to be debate? That's kind of narrow if you're not allowed to give an opinion outside your own section. I guess I'd fit at least 2 sections. Non-denominational and fundamentalist.

Lynn73 said:

What is considered a "fellowship post?" Just asking questions or saying hi? Or is giving of opinions allowed or is that considered to be debate? That's kind of narrow if you're not allowed to give an opinion outside your own section. I guess I'd fit at least 2 sections. Non-denominational and fundamentalist.

Click to expand...

if you want to go somewhere and not worry about getting in trouble for posting your opinion, you can go to OBOB, i go there often and post, they've never said anything to me, not to steer you from the Baptist/Anabaptist forever, but it seems that we dont like for any other denomination to post opinions bc it always turns into an ugly argument, dont ask me why tho.

FreeinChrist said:

Perhaps, Lynn, you could pm the moderators about what you beleive. It may fit here just fine. I go to a nondenominational church that has Baptist beleifs, was raised Baptist and consider myself something of a fundamentalist, so I feel I could post in all three. It is hard to figure where you fit in since the PRE divided into so many forums.

Click to expand...

Good idea, thanks. Sorry to hijack the thread.

I always though of it like being refined by God's fire

Click to expand...

Careful We've already been purged (refined) of our sin by Christ alone (Heb 1:3; 10:10-14; etc.).

The test we have in this life is whether we choose to walk in the newness of life or in the old nature. The new nature cannot sin (1 John). It is eternal, it is a "partaker of the divine nature." It is a new creation of God that will live forever with Him.

I know the Lordship people freak out when you mention a "choice" to walk in the flesh, so let me clarify. I am not saying that after one becomes a child of God by faith that life continues as usual. No. For the believer, there now exists a new nature that is at war with the old nature. The choice to walk in that old nature has now quite a different element to it: conviction by the Holy Sprit and chastening by God.

The new nature wars for control of the body. Whereas in the past, the old nature may have regrets or may feel guilt it was never at war. Now, a choice to work according to the flesh (even in outwardly "good works" done in vain for self glory) will result in an inner turmoil and lack of peace.

Hebrews speaks of the "peaceable fruit of righteousness" in the same chapter is speaks of the "scourging" of God's children. I do not discipline other people's children, but my own children will be disciplined for their own good. This is how God chastens His children.

It is, therefore, possible for a Christian to live a defeated life in misery and have nothing to show. Again, the Lordship people will scream and howl that I am teaching "easy-believism" but that is simply not the case. A Christian walking in the flesh will have no peace and his life will be anything but easy.

At every point, we have decisions to make and motives to evaluate. If it is possible that we make the wrong choice once, it is possible that we make the wrong choice at each juncture.


James 2 As It Applies Here

James 2 deals with the actions of "faith". When confronted with the truths of the gospel and of faith, faith will act. The enemy of faith is Satan. But Satan, unlike the flesh, is a contolled beast. Faith can and will often defeat Satan. So a true believer will not apostate and will have certain evidences of true faith. With faith came an inborn love of the true brethren (1 John). The "brother or sister" refered to in James are fellow-believers. The believer will act on behalf of his brother or sister because this is an act love which is "of God" (1 John).

The other acts in James are hardly meritorious (treason, bearing false witness, human sacrifice), but they are acts born in faith. Was Abraham saved because he attempted to sacrifice hsi child? Did that "work" force God to impute righteousness to him? Of course not. Abraham was "justified" in that his faith was made evident in the act.

As I noted in the other thread, Jesus did not become Messiah because of His works. He appealed to His works as evidence that He was already the Messiah. Our acts which reflect our faith "justify" our faith. The acts of mercy shown to our "bothers and sisters" are also "evidence" of an inward, God-given love for His children.

If "good works" in general were even touted only as "outward evidence" then every godless religionist who works for Habitat for Humanity would appear "justified". The acts of faith that "justify" our faith are unique to true faith. Abraham and Rahab committed odd acts of faith and openly stated that they did because of their faith.

Habitat for Humanity workers may appear kind and giving, but many won't defend the work of Christ, many won't desire to read their Bible, many would never expose a false teacher in their church. Why? Because the "acts of faith" spoken of in James are the acts of believers. They are unique to believers. True believers are driven by faith to do certain "works" that can only be explained by faith.

Any heathen can build houses (not that we shouldn't do such things)... but they'd never be burned at the stake for the sake of Christ and his gospel.

Thoroughly confused? Well, it's hard to teach when one is a lousy typist in such a space-limited forum

I hope you get the gist!

Lynn73 said:

What is considered a "fellowship post?" Just asking questions or saying hi? Or is giving of opinions allowed or is that considered to be debate? That's kind of narrow if you're not allowed to give an opinion outside your own section. I guess I'd fit at least 2 sections. Non-denominational and fundamentalist.

Click to expand...

You can go to the "theology" forums and argue... i mean debate with everyone!! it's great!!

http://www.christianforums.com/f79