Did John Calvin Make Heaven?

However, misery on Earth should NOT be mistaken for Eternal punishment. Read Job. If physical misfortune demonstrated God's rejection, eleven of the original twelve disciples show as 'rejected'.

That's an excellent point. I'll use that.

I think I need to go to bed! I read this and thought, "John Calvin didn't make Heaven. God created Heaven before Calvin was even born!"

Good night!

graciesings said:

I think I need to go to bed! I read this and thought, "John Calvin didn't make Heaven. God created Heaven before Calvin was even born!"

Good night!

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Good night, Gracie.

You do open the door for the enemy whether or not you're clearing yourself of the matter. People's lives have great significance. One would hope that he believed that you do repent from any sins you commit (there are actually some people who believe all of those sins are already forgiven!).

People get mixed up in the head about doctrine, but humble themselves before God in the hear for mercy.

Surely someone approaching God in their great need implores in the heart what cannot be expressed properly in the mind. I would expect that he's in Heaven.

Unfortunately the Bible says no man has gone to heaven-no one, not a soul.
Not David or any of the Fathers of the Faith-they are still asleep in the grave awaiting the first resurrection.
Jesus was the one that said " No man hath ascended up to Heaven, but He that came down from Heaven....-John 3:13.
Heaven is not the reward for the saints.
the idea that souls go to heaven at death originated in pagan religion., not the Bible.

Unfortunately the Bible says no man has gone to heaven-no one, not a soul.
Not David or any of the Fathers of the Faith-they are still asleep in the grave awaiting the first resurrection.
Jesus was the one that said " No man hath ascended up to Heaven, but He that came down from Heaven....-John 3:13.
Heaven is not the reward for the saints.
the idea that souls go to heaven at death originated in pagan religion., not the Bible.

We shouldn't judge 16th Cent people by 21st Cent criteria. In the 16th Cent people thought that heresy was a serious crime. There's no reason Calvin shouldn't have participated in the prosecution.

It's worth noting that Calvin was actually out of power at that time. He was called as a theological expert. Calvin didn't want Servetus burned, and tried to get a humane form of execution.

I agree that this was a major injustice, and by today's standards (including mine) arguably even murder. But it's not fair to judge Calvin for it.

I will say that I wouldn't want to live in Calvin's Geneva. But Calvin did his best to be a Christian leader as that was understood at the time. That included enforcing laws involving morality. Geneva was harsher than many places because Calvin did his job more conscientiously than was often the case. From all reports, he really did care about people. You just didn't want to be a heretic or a "libertine."

What a silly Thread title / question !

Then I read the Thread content ... oy vey !

Almost every time this subject comes up it comes from the lips or the typing fingers of a Pente-Charis type person. tis soooo very telling that they are always sad for the heretic Servetus ,,, and always blame Jean Cauvin ( John Calvin ) for "Killing" the heretic.

The heretic Servetus had death warrants against him from other European towns --- so he went to hide out at Geneva. Calvin reportedly told him to sit down , be quiet and don't make waves. But --- just like 99% of heretics and cultists ... He could not shut his mouth. The City Council of Geneva ordered Servetus to be executed NOT John Calvin. What Calvin did ask the City Council to do was instead of their standard 'slow roast' at low heat... He asked them to use high heat/fire and kill Servetus quickly.

That was in the 1500's --- time for the Servetus whiners and 'fellow travelers' to start reading their whole Bibles ; to start thinking about Christ and Him crucified ; and evangelizing the lost.

( ( Nearly 7 years working in 2 Christian book stores in Pentecrazy/Charismaniac Southern California ... I heard bunches of kook-burger stuff on a weekly basis. { Like the sympathy for Servetus stuff. } If it is weird and loud and unorthodox --- they luuuve it. They would never buy a reference or History or doctrinal book , but would try and get customers & clerks to "Get the blessing".

Well, it appears that Calvin is somewhat less culpable than I had always thought, since he did not order the execution. Still, he failed to plead for the life of the condemned heretic. He only asked for a more compassionate form of execution. Hence, he probably still bears some indirect responsibility for the death of Servetus. Only God knows the fate of Calvin and all those Christians throughout history who had an indirect role in the execution of heretics. Hopefully he eventually saw that what happened was wrong and that he confessed to God regret for his role in the event.

A couple of quotes from John Calvin himself:

7 years before the incident:
"If he [Servetus] comes [to Geneva], I shall never let him go out alive if my authority has weight."
Written by John Calvin in a letter to Farel Feb. 13, 1546

During the incident
Again Calvin writes Farel in a letter dated Aug 20th 1553 where he has Servetus arrested.
"We have now new business in hand with Servetus. He intended perhaps passing through this city; for it is not yet known with what design he came. But after he had been recognized, I thought that he should be detained. My friend Nicolas summoned him on a capital charge. ... I hope that sentence of death will at least be passed upon him"
After the incident:
"Many people have accused me of such ferocious cruelty that (they allege) I would like to kill again the man I have destroyed. Not only am I indifferent to their comments, but I rejoice in the fact that they spit in my face."

"Whoever shall now contend that it is unjust to put heretics and blasphemers to death will knowingly and willingly incur their very guilt.

The strongest recorded statement from Calvin on the Servetus affair is a 1561 letter from Calvin to the Marquis Paet, high chamberlain to the King of Navarre, in which he says intolerantly:

"Honour, glory, and riches shall be the reward of your pains; but above all, do not fail to rid the country of those scoundrels, who stir up the people to revolt against us. Such monsters should be exterminated, as I have exterminated Michael Servetus the Spaniard."


Bible says, "Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." 1John 3:15

Calvin did not have the authority to execute anyone...he wasn't even a citizen of Geneva. The Servetus Card is often pulled when someone has tried to promote Arminianism and got smacked down, biblically speaking, by a Calvinist. In frustration Servetus is thrown out in a discussion instead of facing the fact that their theology is weak and beggarly.

http://www.challies.com/articles/the-servetus-problem

[sorry, duplicate]

I agree JM, but still there are more authorities than just Calvin. I very much prefer Calvin over Arminianism but there are still at least a hundred of Calvinisticly influenced scholars that I avoid. Regarding avoiding, as some of You may notice anyway I explained in a series of posts on a Bible Study software forum what I avoid when there was a discussion about 90% of publisher's catalogs - publishers not previously seen in the Store and I quoted myself in the CF post at: Why the NIV cannot be the word of God, even thought it contains portions of God's word.:

JM said:

Calvin did not have the authority to execute anyone...he wasn't even a citizen of Geneva. The Servetus Card is often pulled when someone has tried to promote Arminianism and got smacked down, biblically speaking, by a Calvinist. In frustration Servetus is thrown out in a discussion instead of facing the fact that their theology is weak and beggarly.

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