So let's take it as you follow it. What is heaven exactly then. What is the afterlife like according to the Bible?
THanks for answering.
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A person's answer to this question will vary based on how literally they view the Bible. There are some who view Heaven as a literal place. Others view it as a figment of men's imaginations. I fall into the former camp.
BFA
So let's take it as you follow it. What is heaven exactly then. What is the afterlife like according to the Bible?
THanks for answering.
The concept of Heaven is a human creation. In the beginning God created the heavens, was simply another way of saying that in the beginning God created all we see and experience. Heaven is not a place. The idea that God would create us here on earth with plans to transport us to another place when we are good enough puts the lie to his pronouncement that his creation was "good."
There is no quarantine. We have performed within the bounds of the nature with which we were created. Humans are not broken. We are merely underperforming. The Creator never makes junk. Everything He makes is perfect. You may notice that He never said "The Creation is no longer good."At creation we WERE part of the general societies of heaven. God did say it was good - very good. But in the events of Genesis 3 this earth was broken - not so good - we were placed in quarantine. Except for Jesus, God dare not show His face or we simply disappear. It became us and them; where sin was and where it wasn't. The whole purpose of the Plan of Salvation is to repair the damage and recover what was lost - though there is some loss that can never be recovered - what ever finds its way to hell. The key word is "restoration." Compare the first three chapters of Genesis and the last three chapters of Revelation - they are perfect bookends even to being mirror imaged.
Thanks for sharing this OldStudent - I enjoyed reading it. There is no need to wait on your dream. What you have described about Future-Heaven is possible now. And much of what is possible now is well beyond our wildest imagination.A
Yes, I think I can easily spend millions of years and not be concerned with boredom. How about you? Why would I not share this dream with anyone willing to listen? If it is dreams from which lasers, computers, and symphonies were born, and God embedded the seeds of such dreams of heaven in Scriptures then why not?
There is no quarantine. We have performed within the bounds of the nature with which we were created. Humans are not broken. We are merely underperforming. The Creator never makes junk. Everything He makes is perfect. You may notice that He never said "The Creation is no longer good."
Thanks for sharing this OldStudent - I enjoyed reading it. There is no need to wait on your dream. What you have described about Future-Heaven is possible now. And much of what is possible now is well beyond our wildest imagination.
Creation is inexhaustible.
There are presently more than enough resources to create paradise. We have a behavior/mindset problem, not a resource problem. The ills in society are created by us and can be healed by us. This is continuously demonstrated everywhere around the globe.There is no way the needed resources will be become available to me even in the next 60 years.
We agree on this, but I am suggesting a starting point that's a bit closer to home.Then all the time, the resources, minds that ALL work as God intended become available and God can then freely empower us fulfill our "wildest imaginations"
I think we are reading two different books.
There are presently more than enough resources to create paradise. We have a behavior/mindset problem, not a resource problem. The ills in society are created by us and can be healed by us. This is continuously demonstrated everywhere around the globe.
We agree on this, but I am suggesting a starting point that's a bit closer to home.
Perhaps the disconnect has less to do with the book being read and more to do with differing views regarding the accuracy and authority of the book. If that is truly the disconnect, then Sentipente and I have the same disconnect.
BFA
Not only can we see it, there's no way to miss it unless you aren't looking. This is continuously demonstrated by people who simply change their mind about how they will treat each other. There are two magazine that highlight examples. ODE - the magazine for "intelligent optimists." And YES - a magazine connected to the Positive Futures Network. There are many communities demonstrating their co-creative capacity. This is what it means to be made in the image of Creator - we are co-creators.We have divergent views of the state of fallen human nature and what can be expected. I take your statement (The ills in society are created by us and can be healed by us.) as we are capable of fixing ourselves. I don't see this in history or current events.
You and I are part of a religion (Christianity) that is part of the problem, because we promote the idea of decline and rescue. Even if we subscribe to the idea of eventual decline, we should should do everything in every moment to take care of our brothers and sisters in the human family. Unfortunately, sometimes we act as if we are trying to precipitate the end. I'm quite sure Jesus would have some harsh things to say about our behavior given his message was clear to us on this issue. The two greatest commandments - Love God and Love Humans.I don't see this in history or current events. This world is largely populated by the dire poor and this population is getting larger. The few rich are becoming richer and more unstable.
Said another way, all life stems from Source. Yes.The Scriptures seem to be pretty plain that we need a wonderful infusion of God's grace and work in us to make any real change. Jesus took great pains to make this work.
Or, as someone wrote the other day, "The 10 commandments in binary."The two greatest commandments - Love God and Love Humans.
An associtated question is: why do I want to be saved? If in heaven there is no pain, no suffering, no sickness, no tears, no..., what is there? I,ve been bored and it didn't take long to get that way! Do we spend our days - interminable years - riding clouds, tipping in praise to God? If that is what heaven is about - count me out!! But if heaven can be a blast count me in!! Our view of heaven can have a profound effect on how we view salvation and how urgently we persue its accomplishment.
I have given this some thought and have written several pages on the matter. In the beginning the earth was "very good" even by God's standard. In the few verses expressing God's desires for man (generic not just gender) we find that we were at liberty to manage and shape things to our liking. Isaiah (mostly chs 65 and 66) has provided some glances into heaven. Jn 14:1-3 provides a hopeful starting place. Revelation 21 and 22 help. 1 Cor 2:9, "But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him."
My dream is a bit extravagant. In brief, there are many galaxies, each with millons of stars so there is potential for hundreds of millions of planets. One has our (me and wife) name on it. Of course there will be no exclusivity. If you want to join us that will be fine. But our tastes aren't yours so you will have a space you will shape finely to your likings.
I enjoy things of science. I am wired as a techinican so there will be a lab that will permit study of natural processes, building things of curiosity and beauty. I am a frustrated musician. I like to try to play Bach. Few pieces ever written match the majesty of Saint-Seans organ symphony. I hope to take training in performance and composition from them. Large pipe organs are a wonderful delight. I plan to build a music hall that will contain a large 7 division organ. Its divisions of golden pipes will be highlighted in platinum and trimmed in turquoise. The console suspended from the ceiling will made of curly maple, diamond and saphire keys, with obsidian drawknobs. There will be a stage for all manner of performances. Every few thousand years an extravaganza will take place. All this in a building of translucent marbled blue/green glass with a muted iridesence.
There will be mountains where we can go play in the snow. We can enjoy the company of dolphins and octopus down in the ocean. There will be meadows for walks, ball games, and deer to roam. Scattered around them are delightful things things to eat just by reaching for them. Cozy nooks for quiet time and conversation. Water falls and pools to play in. Petting gardens where the herbs beg to be petted to release their fragrances. I hope this sounds like a place you would like to come and visit.
But all this is kind of like the little girl whose major delight is in the cake and punch at a wedding reception. The common focal point will be God. There will be wonderful times of corporate worship. There have been times when I have been playing the organ as the congregation sang in worship and fought tears hard because organ insides don't like salt water and I still needed to read the music and it would have been disruptive to just stop. There there will be no reason to hold back. Jesus held large congregations spellbound for hours here. What will it be like there? There will be times of intimate conversation with Him. There will be moments when He will get this funny glint in His eye and seed me with a new riddle to solve.
There will be millions of people to get to know and invite over. There will angels and other beings of God's creation that will be facinating to converse with.
Yes, I think I can easily spend millions of years and not be concerned with boredom. How about you? Why would I not share this dream with anyone willing to listen? If it is dreams from which lasers, computers, and symphonies were born, and God embedded the seeds of such dreams of heaven in Scriptures then why not?
There are presently more than enough resources to create paradise. We have a behavior/mindset problem, not a resource problem. The ills in society are created by us and can be healed by us. This is continuously demonstrated everywhere around the globe.
What good would it do to use the resources to create paradise on earth even if you could? As long as sin and rebellion are in the world, it would NOT be a paradise!!!! No you cannot heal yourself from sin, only Christ can forgive and cleanse sin. And there will be few that will do so. People sin because they are deceived by satan. And they desire it that way.
Rain forests are disappearing because we are cutting them down. People are starving because we are not taking care of each other. We have wars in the name of God - on both sides - because we have such a distorted view of God.What good would it do to use the resources to create paradise on earth even if you could? As long as sin and rebellion are in the world, it would NOT be a paradise!!!! No you cannot heal yourself from sin, only Christ can forgive and cleanse sin. And there will be few that will do so. People sin because they are deceived by satan. And they desire it that way.
Ms. Elly, you need to think more closely about what you say. You seem to think that the answer lies in getting rid of the people who "desire it that way." That problem with that solution is the fact that these people did not make things the way they now are.There are presently more than enough resources to create paradise. We have a behavior/mindset problem, not a resource problem. The ills in society are created by us and can be healed by us. This is continuously demonstrated everywhere around the globe.
What good would it do to use the resources to create paradise on earth even if you could? As long as sin and rebellion are in the world, it would NOT be a paradise!!!! No you cannot heal yourself from sin, only Christ can forgive and cleanse sin. And there will be few that will do so. People sin because they are deceived by satan. And they desire it that way.
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