Dennis Prager's Are You A Liberal Quiz?

Loki · Aug 18, 2004

ROFL!! I hope that we can poke fun at religion a little bit; it's in good fun and not a malevolent spirit.

CaDan said:
We could get very silly with that very quickly--to the point where we could SERIOUSLY offend people. (But I still like to imagine it!). Suffice to say there would be a lot of REALLY FAT Catholics!

I'll stop there.

nadroj1985 · Aug 18, 2004

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CaDan again.

You're the man, CaDan.

La Bonita Zorilla · Aug 18, 2004

Abiel said:
In what ways?

In his inclusiveness to the oppressed, his rejection of legalism, and his defiance of authority, to start.

Judas Iscariot had joined the Disciples hoping Christ would lead a revolution against the temporal authorities, the Romans, the Roman puppet government of Herod, and the High Priests; but his kingdom was not of the world. Christ's admonition to 'render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" can be stretched to "Pay no attention to Caesar; Caesar has no idea what's really going on," as Bokonon did.

La Bonita Zorilla · Aug 18, 2004

fragmentsofdreams said:
I think Jesus transcends labels such as liberal or conservative. Labeling him as one or the other will capture some of what he is, but it will also associate with many things that he is not.

Within Christianity we have factions especially in America where conservatives in the church wish to have established a Christianity of law and liberals in the church favor a Christianity of love. I have no doubt as to which side Christ would stand with, and it's not the one seeking to amass power through fear and superstition.

Abiel · Aug 18, 2004

redheadmt said:
Actually, I know a lot of people in "real life" who remind me of Sharp. To them, it's all about judgements and proving themselves to be superior Christians. They believe that they are in an exclusive "club" and spend most of their time pointing out why almost all other people are not worthy of being in their "club."

Seeing really impressive, intelligent responses to Sharp's posts that voice how I feel and even give me new perspectives about Christianity, has been quite helpful. In other words, Sharp's stereotypical Christian intolerance, and the awesome responses in this forum have been great food for thought. Thank you!

Sharp, you are a lot easier to get along with than some of the real live people I know, liberals, conservatives, whatever!

Caylin · Aug 18, 2004

Uhh.... if I told you what came to mind when I read this, I would get banned. Fast.

artybloke · Aug 18, 2004

La Bonita Zorilla said:
Christ's admonition to 'render unto Caesar what is C aesar's" can be stretched to "Pay no attention to Caesar; Caesar has no idea what's really going on," as Bokonon did.

At last! A fellow Bokononist! I'm not alone!

Anastasis · Aug 18, 2004

seebs said:
We are the real liberals. You can tell 'cuz people hate us for being liberal, and you can tell because we match up nicely with real live dictionary definitions. We hang out with sinners, we listen to music that many people think is unacceptable... And we praise God with everything we do, all the time.

Amen!

seebs said:
Also, be aware of the distinction between a liberal approach to disagreement, and liberal positions. Many liberals hold conservative positions. There are a number of points on which my personal moral standards are much, much, much stricter than those of the majority of the conservatives I've ever met; it's just that, unlike them, I don't think it's my job to convict people in their sins.

*climbs out of box* hey I was beginning to like it in there. I dig the Earl Grey!

CaDan said:
Free ice cream! You don't have to take a quiz! Free ice cream!

Free to welfare mothers and CEOs! Free to Democrats and Republicans and Libertarians and Greens! Free ice cream!

You rang?
You have no idea how happy I am that people around here actually know what that is!
I went to Texas A&M University which is prob one of the most conservative schools in the country (we had protests in support of the Vietnam War) - so if you're not an Uber Conservative, you're a hippie commie.
(okay I'll go back on topic now...)

Sharp · Aug 18, 2004

Abiel said:
Sharp, you are a lot easier to get along with than some of the real live people I know, liberals, conservatives, whatever!

Thanks I try.

It is my observation that people may disagree profoundly without animosity. I never ridicule others, insult them, post non-responsively or respond to posts that do so. I am pleased to read a few posters here like Seebs who do engage me in respectful dialog.

Loki · Aug 18, 2004

We could make a new box (thread) for chewing the fat, and maybe with permission of the mods get it stickied and just chat in there and enjoy ourselves, and have an amiable environment?

I made Irish Breakfast Tea today. It's not just for breakfast If anyone wants sugar, milk, or lemon, just let me know.

Karl - Liberal Backslider · Aug 18, 2004

Sharp said:
Are you feeling manipulated? Really? Is it too much to suppose that some of your fellow posters might actually be interested in a discussion of liberalism (theology)?

But most of the questions were about liberal politics, not liberal theology.

I know plenty of people who hold extremely conservative political views, but are theological liberals.

And there was a time when I was a full red-blooded socialist, and at the same time, a conservative evangelical.

You need to distinguish the two different uses of the term "liberal"; you seem to be assuming that a liberal theologian will be a political liberal, and vice versa.

rnmomof7 · Aug 18, 2004

I am going through this thread and trashing all the non responsive sarcastic posts.

If you do not like the topic or do not have a considered response perhaps it is better not to reply.

Debate the issues or ignore the discussion. No personal vendettas here ok?

rnmomof7 · Aug 18, 2004

The Pinata said:
Politically liberal?

Sharp, you ARE NOT A LIBERAL.

YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND LIBERAL VIEWPOINTS.

AND I'D ASK YOU TO STOP POSTING AND ATTACKING LIBERALS.

We should get him banned from this forum. He doesn't belong here.

The that would verify every thing he has said. That you do not like the message so get rid of the messenger.

The bible says of you dig a pit for another you will fall into it yourself.

seebs · Aug 18, 2004

Well, to get back on topic: As noted, the original post is a straw man written by a conservative who has no real comprehension of what liberals are like; it's like trying to ask someone who was raised Muslim his entire life and read a couple of Chick Tracts once what "Christianity" is like.

However, there's more to it. If you analyze the wording carefully, the use of loaded language looks pretty intentional. The intent here is to make people stop identifying as "liberals", because if they feel like they don't agree, they'll split up and not work together, and become less powerful -- thus, Mr. Prager's side, the conservatives, will win.

What he's done here is made the mistake of assuming that liberals are all about having a rigid set of positions which define them. In fact, that's not the case, so the exercise is entirely futile. Prager is trying to make liberals be conservatives seen through a mirror, but in fact, it's not the positions, but the methodology, which differs.

So... The entire question is pointless, at best. It doesn't really address liberalism at all, it addresses a straw man crafted specifically to make people want to avoid anything associated with the word "liberal".

rnmomof7 · Aug 18, 2004

Thanks seebs , carry on

seebs · Aug 18, 2004

rnmomof7 said:
The that would verify every thing he has said. That you do not like the message so get rid of the messenger.

The bible says of you dig a pit for another you will fall into it yourself.

Red letter day, folks, rnmomof7 and I are in total agreement on something.

Seriously, I think that prohibiting Sharp from talking to us would be harmful. I do think he's in error some of the time, and I think he needs to listen more than he does... But that doesn't make him a Bad Person.

Rev. Smith · Aug 18, 2004

The Pinata said:
Actually, if you play the song by Led Zeppelin backwards, and yes I have done this myself, it does actually have ridiculously corny "satanic" messages halfway through it... as some sort of odd joke about going backwards on the stairway to heaven.

Brother, perhaps you have too much free time?

Anastasis · Aug 18, 2004

1 Standards for admissions to universities, fire departments, etc. should be lowered for people of color.
No but for what it is worth I don't think they should be lowered for gender either - I had someone imply I got my scholarship because I was a woman and it angered me so much I would never inflict that on anyone - so a personal view deviating from whatever political party I might adhere to.

2 Bilingual education for children of immigrants, rather than immersion in English, is good for them and for America.

Yes, Americans are looked down upon because we only speak English - besides what can that hurt?

3 Murderers should never be put to death.

Nope - No killing allowed thank you.

4 During the Cold War, America should have adopted a nuclear arms freeze.

Not really a liberal view is it? Well seeing as I barely remember the Cold War I'll skip this one.

5 Colleges should not allow ROTC programs.

Whoa - I've never heard that one advocated anywhere.
They should be allow to do whatever they want.

6 It was wrong to wage war against Saddam Hussein in the Gulf War.

He invaded another country - Let's go get 'em.

7 Poor parents should not be allowed to have vouchers to send their children to private schools.

School vouchers - Undecided honestly.

8 It is good that trial lawyers and teachers unions are the two biggest contributors to the Democratic Party.

Money does not equal free speech. But I still think they should be allowed to donate to whomever they wish - with caps.

9 Marriage should be redefined from male-female to any two people.

Nope - Marriage should be removed from Gov't altogether - Civil Unions only - and those between any two consenting adults.

10 A married couple should not have more of a right to adopt a child than two men or two women.

A couple with a civil union should have equal grounds for adopting a baby. Period.

11 The Boy Scouts should not be allowed to use parks or any other public places and should be prohibited from using churches and synagogues for their meetings.

Wow - another one I've never heard.
Doesn't that one violate freedom of assembly?

12 The present high tax rates are good.

Nope - stifle the economy.

13 Speech codes on college campuses are good and American values.

People should be allowed to say whatever they want.

14 The Israelis and Palestinians are morally equivalent.

No one is in the right in that war.

15 The United Nations is a moral force for good in the world, and therefore America should be subservient to it and such international institutions as a world court.

It is a force for good - we should not be subservient to it simply because I hate that word.

16 It is good that colleges have dropped hundreds of men's sports teams in order to meet gender-based quotas.

Yup - because Women have just as much right to play and University Sports shouldn't be "for-profit" anyway

17 No abortions can be labeled immoral.

All Murder is immoral.

18 Restaurants should be prohibited by law from allowing customers to choose between a smoking and a non-smoking section.

Huh!?! Why would it matter? (I'm serious here - can someone explain to me the legal issues there? I'm curious)

19 High schools should make condoms available to students and teach them how to use them.

Yes - they are going to anyway might as well make it safe - Condoms in schools don't increase the rate of sex they increase the rate of safe sex.

20 Racial profiling for terrorists is wrong -- a white American grandmother should as likely be searched as a Saudi young male.

It's not wrong - but we should rely too heavily on it - Because there are a lot of White terrorists as well. *coughIRAcough*

21 Racism and poverty -- not a lack of fathers and a crisis of values -- are the primary causes of violent crime in the inner city.

Why can't all of them be causes?

22 It is wrong and unconstitutional for students to be told, "God bless you" at their graduation.

It depends by whom - by their grandmother after the service? No of course not - by a gov't paid official in an offical capacity, I'd say it's borderline.

23 No culture is morally superior to any other.

Nope, but culture doesn't equal religion - those are two different issues.

La Bonita Zorilla · Aug 19, 2004

seebs said:
...be aware of the distinction between a liberal approach to disagreement, and liberal positions. Many liberals hold conservative positions. There are a number of points on which my personal moral standards are much, much, much stricter than those of the majority of the conservatives I've ever met; it's just that, unlike them, I don't think it's my job to convict people in their sins.

I often say the liberals I know are usually about the most conservative people I know, too.

La Bonita Zorilla · Aug 19, 2004

seebs said:
...the original post is a straw man written by a conservative who has no real comprehension of what liberals are like

Actually I have heard several instances of Dennis Praeger being described as a liberal. He is, as far as radio talkmeisters go, among the more liberal, albeit a DLC-type [Democratic Leadership Council] liberal like President Clinton, Al Gore, Evan Bayh, and Daniel Patrick Moynihan.

Dennis Prager's Are You A Liberal Quiz?

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