Defining My Perception of Love

razzelflabben · Oct 31, 2016

junebug72 said:
Hello. My name is JB for short. I am extremely interested in how you as an individual define; LOVE.

I define love as do no harm, want the best for you always, laughter and security. If you need food and I have some I will share it with you; the same for water.

Forgiveness, empathy, nurture, sharing are some other examples of how we can show love, IMO.

Things I don't consider love: anger, wrath, betrayal, cruelty, chaos, violence, lies...

some years ago God led me to a deep study of Biblical Love. Biblical Love differs from worldly love quite a bit actually. Worldly love is an good feeling emotion while Biblical Love is emotion, action, attitude and more.

Thus the best definition we could come up with is this...Love is putting another above yourself in an act of humility creating a covenant whose intent/purpose is reconciliation/restoration.

Few people understand that Love has a purpose and a covenant built into it. Thanks for the question and I enjoyed your post

razzelflabben · Oct 31, 2016

junebug72 said:
A Question for you if I may. If you love someone and they reject you, as wonderful as you are, is the moral thing to do to set them free or punish them?

Morality is a man made construct therefore it would depend on the culture you were living in and what they dictate. Biblically speaking, you have to "let them go" meaning trust them to the Lord's care and correction.

razzelflabben · Oct 31, 2016

junebug72 said:
Would you please answer my question? Set them free? That is an action. Everything I listed above requires action.

Where is there room for the act of wrath in the act love?

wrath is not ours to bestow on others according to scripture. Romans 12:19

razzelflabben · Oct 31, 2016

Ken Rank said:
I did answer your question. You asked how we define love and I answered that. The last part of the OP where you stated certain actions that you didn't consider love, wasn't in question form, it was a statement by you. To address it, though... setting something free can be love but I don't necessarily see wrath as love at least as we have the ability to understand it.

God's wrath is a part of Love in that it is just...ours however is not so much.

razzelflabben · Oct 31, 2016

junebug72 said:
Why would you get angry? I would feel fear not anger. I would not punish a child that did not know running in the road was dangerous. I would point out some road kill and say do you want that to happen to you? No? Then stay out of the road. It has worked very effectively for me. I would have empathy for the child not anger.

You get angry at your wife, she failed you? Okay that's not love my friend. Anger and love do not keep company with one another. If you had empathy for your wife you would not get angry at her.

I beg to differ, scripture says be angry but sin not...anger is part of life and Love, what we do with it is what determines if we acted in Love or not.

razzelflabben · Oct 31, 2016

junebug72 said:
Justice? I don't consider holocaust victims frying for eternity while Hitler spends his days with God, that's the once saved always saved philosophy , Hitler was Catholic, justice. In fact I think eternal torture is beyond the realm of justice even for Hitler and Stalin, also Catholic. Maybe a day for each victim but eternity seems harsh to me even for the lowest of human scum bags. We only get a small amount of time to learn how to be good considering the amount of time that has already existed for God, infinity right? Our time on this planet is a blink of God's eye, right?

Who says God must be right? You know I'm atheist right? These kind of answers are not productive for this thread. This could easily derail this thread. This conversation is about your human perception of love. Not a debate about God's existence and this is where I feel I'm being led to.

here is the thing...when we understand what real Love is, we can't help but see God in the midst of it. It's the side effect so to speak of that Love that all men are seeking and it is that way because God created man to seek that unfailing Love.

smithed64 · Oct 31, 2016

junebug72 said:
I do not accept the claim that Yahweh exists. You saying that to me would be the equivalent of me saying to you; you know God does not exist. I even capitalized the "G" out of respect for your belief. I don't have a belief in the non existence of God I reject the posited claim that It does due to lack of evidence.

I find your comment very disrespectful and a violation of The Golden Rule. Which BTW has been around longer than Christianity; also capitalized.

You have a conscience right?
Conscience is a compound word, meaning...con - "with" and science- "knowledge"

No, it doesn't because you can't know if something doesn't exist. If it never existed, you would have never it known to be. It's circular and a fallacy.
Plus for me to say that I know God doesn't exist, would be saying that I know everything...I don't know everything.
That would be like me saying there is no gold in china, at all. If one child in all of china had a gold tooth, I'd be a liar.
No, I know God exist.
Everyone does. Just many cover that knowledge with unrighteousness.

19And this is the verdict: The Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness more than light, because their deeds were evil.
20Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

For you to deny something, you have to know it exist. Cause if it didn't exist at all, then why deny it at all. I didn't say, you have to believe it exist...just that you know it does, just not what it is.

Myself and many others believe, not because someone told us to, but because we experience Him in our lives. We surrendered to Him and let Him guide our lives and in that experience what He can do. And because of that experience, we know Him and He knows us.

I've treated you kindly and with love. Because if I didn't care about where your soul ended up. I'd not talk to you at all.

razzelflabben · Oct 31, 2016

junebug72 said:
Yes I did. Thank you for correcting me. I still find it insulting to be told I can not love unless I follow the bible. I was trying to make the point that maybe it was okay with Jesus for us to work together. You debunked that. It's not a part of my worldview I love my species. I want nothing but the best for us all. Roofs over our heads, modest good ones too not shacks or trailers, food in our bellies but not too much and shoes on our feet and good health/old age. Most of all I want us loved to the moon and back.

I would give my life for that.

what you describe here is compassion nothing more or less. The problem with equating compassion with Love is that compassion can be a completely self motivated thing. (doesn't have to be but can) for someone to really Love you to the moon and back requires humility not just compassion.

MehGuy · Oct 31, 2016

junebug72 said:
Is it an inability to be vulnerable that causes one to be a sadist?

No. Most sadists and masochists are actually sadomasochists. Having one without the other doesn't really make much sense. It's just that people tend to drift to one or the other when it comes to relationships. Most likely following gender roles, or such gender roles are more natural.

Sadists are just really good at enjoying other people's vulnerabilities. Although like the video said, it's a spectrum. Most relationships have at least some s/m qualities to it. Some are more extreme than others, and I consider myself on the far end of that spectrum. So much so that if there is no suffering I am unable to feel love at all.

Is it too much vulnerability that causes one to be a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]?

Most likely. At least the emotional variety.

Are you ''born this way'' or made this way by childhood environment?

Probably a bit of both. I'd say everyone is at some point in the spectrum. Environment can probably move that around a little bit, but for the most part its fixed. Although I have to say for some people they seem to get into these relationships rather late in life. A mystery to many, with the popular notion that they were always like this, they just didn't have the tools and language to properly express themselves.

While crude there have been a few brain scans done on sadistic people. Which hints that sadists are pretty empathetic people who are more sensitive to other's pain than the average person. There was a pretty clear brain pattern being displayed for each sadist tested. Strangely enough, it didn't seem to portray a spectrum. You either had it or didn't. Not sure what to make of that. Other than the possibility that you can choose to have sadistic thoughts or not. Like I said before, they're crude brain scans. So many other tests need to be done to develop a more concrete picture of what is going on.

If Yahweh exists he shows no vulnerability. Even Jesus was all under His power, he was Jesus. It was a part of his plan. Jesus was never vulnerable.

Lol, I have my own thoughts regarding this. Although I tend to keep them to myself, since I've already gotten into trouble expressing them here in the past.

junebug72 · Oct 31, 2016

Galatea said:
You say you would give your life to be loved to the moon and back. Since you think no one loves you like that, you sound unhappy.

No one can follow the Golden Rule all the time except Jesus. Are you always kind, compassionate, tolerant, never angry, always a perfectly lovely woman to every person all the time? Love is not being perfect, it is forgiving the loved one when they transgress. It is saying "You hurt me, but I love you and forgive you." This is peace, this is security, this is compassion, ultimate tolerance. It is Jesus forgiving those who crucified Him. It is Jesus who forgave the apostle Paul who held the coats of the people who martyred Steven. This is love.

I am sure you have hurt people you love, even if unknowingly. A chance word, not intended to hurt, can cause pain. We've all done this.

I've not seen Inside Out, so I can't speak to that. I am not saying people should be angry all the time. Of course that's not good for your health- mental, spiritual, physical, etc. But people get angry once in a while. It is something that happens. It's not a permanent state. The girl in the movie got angry, right? But it didn't last forever. It's a blip- an abnormality on the chart, if you will. It sounds to me like you expect people to be perfect and never hurt each other. This means you won't be happy, because people hurt each other. Happiness, peace, love, joy comes from forgiving and restoration. I thank God that my loved ones forgive me when I hurt them, and I am not thrown away for transgressing against love.

First off that's not what I said. I said I would die for you to have those things and everybody else on the planet. IOW's I would die for world peace. It's not altruistic I have a son and grandson and it would benefit them.

I don't think you have to be perfect not to hurt people you just have to be nice. It's not that hard especially when you reject claims of fallen races and talking snakes.

Galatea · Oct 31, 2016

junebug72 said:
In context "meant to be" means ordained by God. Like the concept soulmate. I don't believe in either one. I think love is hard work.

But you said, if it don't come easy, let it go. How can it be hard work and easy at once?

junebug72 · Oct 31, 2016

razzelflabben said:
what you describe here is compassion nothing more or less. The problem with equating compassion with Love is that compassion can be a completely self motivated thing. (doesn't have to be but can) for someone to really Love you to the moon and back requires humility not just compassion.

Please explain exactly how I equated love with compassion?

junebug72 · Oct 31, 2016

Galatea said:
But you said, if it don't come easy, let it go. How can it be hard work and easy at once?

That's an excellent question. Things happen like job loss and sickness. That's the hard work. Loving them through it the easy stuff.

junebug72 · Oct 31, 2016

Galatea said:
With respect, I don't think you understand yourself if you think you always practice the Golden Rule to everyone. I am sure you have hurt people in your life.

What makes you so sure?

junebug72 · Oct 31, 2016

@Galatea My happiness is my responsibility.

Galatea · Oct 31, 2016

junebug72 said:
What makes you so sure?

Because you are not Jesus Christ.

junebug72 · Oct 31, 2016

smithed64 said:
You have a conscience right?
Conscience is a compound word, meaning...con - "with" and science- "knowledge"

No, it doesn't because you can't know if something doesn't exist. If it never existed, you would have never it known to be. It's circular and a fallacy.
Plus for me to say that I know God doesn't exist, would be saying that I know everything...I don't know everything.
That would be like me saying there is no gold in china, at all. If one child in all of china had a gold tooth, I'd be a liar.
No, I know God exist.
Everyone does. Just many cover that knowledge with unrighteousness.

19And this is the verdict: The Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness more than light, because their deeds were evil.
20Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

For you to deny something, you have to know it exist. Cause if it didn't exist at all, then why deny it at all. I didn't say, you have to believe it exist...just that you know it does, just not what it is.

Myself and many others believe, not because someone told us to, but because we experience Him in our lives. We surrendered to Him and let Him guide our lives and in that experience what He can do. And because of that experience, we know Him and He knows us.

I've treated you kindly and with love. Because if I didn't care about where your soul ended up. I'd not talk to you at all.

Conscience is evidence of conscience. A necessary tool for survival. You have to determine how your behavior affects others so you know if you need to run.

Here's an analogy with your logic. I claim aliens are eating babies on planet Eureka. You deny aliens are eating babies on Planet Eureka therefor you know it's true. You don't have to believe but because you deny it you know it.

Why are you worried about my soul?

junebug72 · Oct 31, 2016

Galatea said:
Because you are not Jesus Christ.

I don't follow. Jesus hurt that innocent fig tree. He also hurt those little pigs he cast the demons in to. Since Jesus is Yahweh in the flesh Jesus hurt a lot of people when he was Yahweh. I don't see how not being Jesus is imperative to me not being a person that hurts others. I would never drown babies.

junebug72 · Oct 31, 2016

MehGuy said:
No. Most sadists and masochists are actually sadomasochists. Having one without the other doesn't really make much sense. It's just that people tend to drift to one or the other when it comes to relationships. Most likely following gender roles, or such gender roles are more natural.

Sadists are just really good at enjoying other people's vulnerabilities. Although like the video said, it's a spectrum. Most relationships have at least some s/m qualities to it. Some are more extreme than others, and I consider myself on the far end of that spectrum. So much so that if there is no suffering I am unable to feel love at all.

Most likely. At least the emotional variety.

Probably a bit of both. I'd say everyone is at some point in the spectrum. Environment can probably move that around a little bit, but for the most part its fixed. Although I have to say for some people they seem to get into these relationships rather late in life. A mystery to many, with the popular notion that they were always like this, they just didn't have the tools and language to properly express themselves.

While crude there have been a few brain scans done on sadistic people. Which hints that sadists are pretty empathetic people who are more sensitive to other's pain than the average person. There was a pretty clear brain pattern being displayed for each sadist tested. Strangely enough, it didn't seem to portray a spectrum. You either had it or didn't. Not sure what to make of that. Other than the possibility that you can choose to have sadistic thoughts or not. Like I said before, they're crude brain scans. So many other tests need to be done to develop a more concrete picture of what is going on.

Lol, I have my own thoughts regarding this. Although I tend to keep them to myself, since I've already gotten into trouble expressing them here in the past.

You are an interesting person MehGuy! Thanks for the clarification. As long as it's mentally healthy for you and your partner/s I won't worry about ya.

junebug72 · Oct 31, 2016

Galatea said:
Because you are not Jesus Christ.

i don't think you like humans.

Defining My Perception of Love

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