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joshua 1 9

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You just achieved the world record for irony!
You just joined the very long list of people that are putting up a post that has nothing to do with the topic. Also one that is a personal attack. I am not the subject here, deep time is the subject and you should limit your comments to deep time.
 
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crjmurray

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You just joined the very long list of people that are putting up a post that has nothing to do with the topic. Also one that is a personal attack. I am not the subject here, deep time is the subject and you should limit your comments to deep time.

Do you have a dating method you'd like to discuss?
 
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joshua 1 9

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Let me ask, what is your understanding of the use of "index fossils" with respect to relative dating? Is it circular reasoning? If so why?
Of course it is circular by definition. We go by the known rate of decay. So the age is determined by what we think we know the rate of decay is. Far to often in science what we think we know to be true, turns out not to be accurate.

"Radioactive decay rates, thought to be unique physical constants and counted on in such fields as medicine and anthropology, may be more variable than once thought."

http://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/research/2010/100830FischbachJenkinsDec.html
 
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crjmurray

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Of course it is circular by definition. We go by the known rate of decay. So the age is determined by what we think we know the rate of decay is. Far to often in science what we think we know to be true, turns out not to be accurate.

So you think the decay rates are wrong? Different? Askew?
 
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joshua 1 9

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Do you have a dating method you'd like to discuss?

Plants discriminate against carbon dioxide containing 14C. That is, they take up less than would be expected and so they test older than they really are. Furthermore, different types of plants discriminate differently. This also has to be corrected for.

Second, the ratio of 14C/12C in the atmosphere has not been constant—for example, it was higher before the industrial era when the massive burning of fossil fuels released a lot of carbon dioxide that was depleted in 14C. This would make things which died at that time appear older in terms of carbon dating.

So to determine the known decay rate is not going to be a very simple process and is subject to error.
 
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RickG

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Of course it is circular by definition.

How is dating geologic strata with index fossils circular reasoning?

We go by the known rate of decay. So the age is determined by what we think we know the rate of decay is. Far to often in science what we think we know to be true, turns out not to be accurate.

Please advise me if I'm wrong, but was it not you that I explained several pages back that there are several ways we know decay rates have not changed? If so, would you please point out what you feel is wrong with that assessment?

"Radioactive decay rates, thought to be unique physical constants and counted on in such fields as medicine and anthropology, may be more variable than once thought."

http://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/research/2010/100830FischbachJenkinsDec.html

Yes, I'm not only quite aware of that, I mentioned that in a previous post. That is specific only to cosmogenic radionuclides, and they are oscillations that vary due to earth's distance from the sun during earth's orbit. An oscillation is not a rate change because it exhibits the same annual behavior.
 
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joshua 1 9

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How is dating geologic strata with index fossils circular reasoning?
The rate is not consistent. It has to be adjusted. So you are assigning the date or age that you think it should be based in the adjustments you use to determine the so called know rate of decay.
 
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joshua 1 9

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.....why?
The subject is deep time. In the beginning of deep time James Hutton thought the earth was millions of years old. Now modern deep time theory holds that the earth is billions of years old. The age itself does not matter as long as you are consistent enough to date something so you can assign it to the right age. As new information become available old information is found not to be accurate.
 
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RickG

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Yes, there are differences between C3 plants (trees) and C4 plants (tropical grasses), and this can be adjusted by comparing the ratios of 13C/12C with respect to the PDB standard. This is well understood by geochemists and the need for this adjustment pertains to more than just dating techniques.


And again, yes; that is a well know fact and it is not ignored. That is why a calibration scale is used. Also, the increase of fossil fuels is not a problem with radiocarbon dating, as again, it is the 13C/12C ratio that not only shows this, but it is also the smoking gun that shows that the increase in atmospheric CO2 is due to fossil fuels and not other sources.

So to determine the known decay rate is not going to be a very simple process and is subject to error.

Actually, the arguments presented in that post has nothing to do with decay rates at all, rather the atmospheric content of 14C over time and the selectivity difference between 3C and 4C plants.
 
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RickG

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The rate is not consistent. It has to be adjusted. So you are assigning the date or age that you think it should be based in the adjustments you use to determine the so called know rate of decay.

Joshua, the only radionuclides that exhibit an oscillation due to a steady cosmogenic variation that has absolutely no effect on dating for two reasons. (1) it is too small to make a major difference in dating and (2) it averages out every year. It is not a problem. Nevertheless, no strata that is radiometrically dated with any cosmogenic radionuclide. The isotopes used in dating strata do not change or even oscillate.
 
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bhsmte

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You just joined the very long list of people that are putting up a post that has nothing to do with the topic. Also one that is a personal attack. I am not the subject here, deep time is the subject and you should limit your comments to deep time.

Seems like a lot of folks, have the same observation.

Does that mean anything to you?
 
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joshua 1 9

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That is why a calibration scale is used.
Lots of things in life have to be calibrated, just don't ask me to trust in your calibrations. With deep time it really does not matter and it does not need to be accurate. If you were working for NASA then that maybe a different story because if you do not get it right then there is a chance that people are going to die. You do not have that sort of life and death consequences for errors with radiometric dating calibrations so the results are not that important. Of course if your working for the oil companies then there maybe a huge profit motive to get it right.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Seems like a lot of folks, have the same observation.

Does that mean anything to you?
Why don't you quit attacking me and stick to the subject. I do not need to listen to anymore of your trumped up charges from your kangaroo court. This is Christmas and you people should be happy and rejoicing in the Lord for all the benefits you have received from Him. For God is good all of the time and this is our chance to give Him thanks and praise.
 
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