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BABerean2

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There was a purpose to this thread at some point...

In the image from the Book of Daniel, the part of the statue that is in place just before Christ grinds it to powder, is the part made of Iron and clay, which many understand to be Rome.


Dan_2:34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

Dan_2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

Dan_2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

Dan_2:41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

Dan_2:42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

Dan_2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

Dan_2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.



During the time of Christ's earthly ministry Rome controlled most of the known world through the leadership of the Caesars. Later after the reign of Constantine, Rome came to rule the world again through the Papacy.
Some have viewed this as a healing of a deadly head wound.

The Reformers identified the Papacy to be the antichrist system of scripture.
The pope was a man who sat in the Church and allowed Christians to bow down to him and claimed to speak for God.

A number of years ago author Dave Hunt wrote a book titled "A Woman Rides the Beast" in which he proposed the same idea.

At the Council of Trent the Papacy initiated the Counter Reformation in an attempt to take the focus away from the Papacy.


Two new systems of interpretation came out of the Council of Trent.

The Jesuit Riberra came up with a Futurist system that has evolved into modern Dispensational Futurism, which has overtaken the evangelical Church in America.
It claims there are Two Peoples of God with Two separate Plans.
Some even claim that Grace will end at a pretrib removal of the Church and propose that the Jews will go back to keeping the Law in a rebuilt temple with renewed animal sacrifices.

The Jesuit Alcazar came up the a Preterist system that has now evolved into Full-Preterism, which denies the future Second Coming of Christ and a future resurrection of the body. It is considered heretical by many Christians.

The current pope is attempting to heal the wound of the Reformation and reclaim the Papacy's lost daughters...


Many Americans have come to judge our faith based on what comes from television preachers like Kenneth Copeland.




 
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parousia70

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But it is not the same because Messiah did come physically to earth and in flesh.

So you believe the mark of the beast is a spiritual mark and not a physical one?
 
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ebedmelech

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Not sure what you're saying here. Every promise to Israel is fulfilled in Christ at His resurrection. If not....please point out what wasn't. Jesus said to the two on the road to Emmaus at Luke 24:27
27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

The error of full preterist is they want to say everything is fulfilled...period which simply is wrong on it's face when you read scripture.

Peter's Pentecost sermon declares the fulfillment of all promises to Israel. Are they complete? No...but they are fulfilled because the Gentiles are equally Israel, because Christ is Israel!
 
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Berean777

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Christ is Israel the seed of promise who was declared by God in the garden to crush the serpents head. As we chronologically read the Old Testament authors from Genesis, Deuteronomy where he is called the servant and in Isaiah how he is the suffering servant and in Zechariah he is the cornerstone of the temple that is laid with the shouting of grace grace be onto him. So we see a progressive reveal of the seed of promise who is Israel the messiah is the Israel if God and those called with him are heirs to the promise and citizens of Israel.
 
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Pink Spider

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-----------------
-----------------


MOD HAT ON


This thread was PERMANENTLY CLOSED
by CF-Staff
because the posts discussing and

promoting FULL PRETERISM just
continued - in spite of an earlier Warning.


MOD HAT OFF
-----------------
-----------------
 
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Tallguy88

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ADMIN HAT

Thread reopened after a major cleanup. Please remember that Full Preterism is considered unorthodox on CF and can only be promoted in the Controversial Theology forum.
 
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Douggg

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So you are promoting the Reformers eschatology?
 
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BABerean2

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So you are promoting the Reformers eschatology?

The Reformers, like Dave Hunt, believed the Papacy was the "woman who rides the beast" in the Book of Revelation.

They came out of the Papacy for this reason.
However, they did not let go of infant baptism and some of the pagan holidays from the Papacy.

Like many of us they got some things right, but not others...

It is my belief that the Papacy is tied to end-time events.

At this present time, the current pope is attempting to regain those lost during the Reformation.

.
 
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Douggg

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How can the Papacy be a woman, when the Papacy is always a man?
 
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BABerean2

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How can the Papacy be a woman, when the Papacy is always a man?

The Papacy is not a man. It is a system, with one man at the top.

If it was a man, it would die when he dies.

In scripture, whoredom is often equated with idol worship.

.
 
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Douggg

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The Papacy is not a man. It is a system, with one man at the top.

If it was a man, it would die when he dies.

In scripture, whoredom is often equated with idol worship.

.
It is not a system. It is the office held by the pope. The popes are always men. So how can the office held always by men, be a woman?
 
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BABerean2

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It is not a system. It is the office held by the pope. The popes are always men. So how can the office held always by men, be a woman?

Based on your logic, the Papal system ended when the last pope died or resigned and had to be reborn after the papal conclave selected the next pope.

In scripture harlots are usually women...

However, the whole nation of Israel was considered in whoredom when they worshipped idols.

.
 
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Douggg

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The Catholic Church itself is always referred to as a woman. It's the Bride of Christ.
Okay to first sentence. Second sentence....not imo.


Doug....you can't be serious.

Yes, I am afraid so.
 
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Douggg

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The papacy is not a system... but an office within the "system". The RCC system determines the Pope, which under that "system", the papacy has gone through stages, in how the "system" determines who is Pope. Look up papacy on wikipedia.

The RCC, in particular the Vatican, the collective leadership, in pragmatic terms, is the harlot, I agree. But not the beast in Revelation. Nor is the pope, or office of the pope, the Antichrist, nor the beast.

The actual harlot is Semiramis in my opinion. The beast in the bottomless pit, Nimrod, a disembodied spirit. But not reincarnated as the end times person, who becomes the beast - when possessed by the unclean spirit of Nimrod, when the times comes.

You don't read Antichrist in Revelation because the focus in Revelation is after the person has gone through the Antichrist stage - which is the temporary embracement by the Jews as the King of Israel.... the messiah, Christ in English. It was common knowledge back then that "the Christ" was the hoped for messianic "King of Israel".

Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

The Pope carries no biblical significance as far as end times role, any more than the Anglican archbishop of Cantebury. Some say the queen as the reigning monarch is the head of the Church of England. Maybe Catholics would argue that the Queen is the woman riding the beast. But somehow Queen Elizabeth doesn't fit that image to me.
 
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BABerean2

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The papacy is not a system... but an office within the "system". The RCC system determines the Pope, which under that "system", the papacy has gone through stages, in how the "system" determines who is Pope. Look up papacy on wikipedia.

You know something, from a technical point of view, you are correct. However, beware of Wikipedia since anyone can post to it, whether the information is correct or not. It is a starting point only.
The following is from the Encyclopedia Britannica, which is a much more reliable source.


"Papacy: the office and jurisdiction of the bishop of Rome, the pope (Latin papa, from Greek pappas, “father”), who presides over the central government of the Roman Catholic Church, the largest of the three major branches of Christianity. The term pope was originally applied to all the bishops in the West and also used to describe the patriarch of Alexandria, who still retains the title. In 1073, however, Pope Gregory VII restricted its use to the bishop of Rome, confirming a practice that had existed since the 9th century..."

We also have to be careful of the word "Catholic", because it does not always refer to the RCC.

You have always attempted to downplay the possibility of the RCC being involved in endtime events, because you have another point of view and you will probably never agree with Dave Hunt and me on this issue.

However, Rome is the city on 7 hills. Somebody even wrote a song about it.


.
 
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