Dave Roberson...tongues.

Blessedj01 said:

I'm going to finish the book, especially as I haven't reached the "How to effectively pray in tongues" section yet...but I just feel kind of weird about what I'm reading sometimes. I guess it's what you said.

For example, some of his statements like praying in tongues "qualifies you to fulfill God's call on your life" or that it 'releases' the power of the Holy Spirit.

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No one prayed more than Jesus I would believe. Did He pray in Tongues? Why a need to pray in tongues? Would not God understand you if you pray in your own language? Why would He prefer an American to pray in Spanish?

Oscarr said:

Yes. I have read the book through twice. I found it very faith building. I have been using the gift of tongues in my private prayer life for about 45 years, and it has been a great blessing in my Christian life.

I think that much that has been said in opposition to the gift of tongues on this thead is just simply rubbish from people who don't have any personal experience of the gift.

Paul spent a whole chapter of the Bible teaching about the correct use of tongues, and because it is the inspired Word of God, I firmly believe that tongues is a prayer tool to be used to assist us in prayer. The use of it is for private prayer, and some of the problems with it has come through the unscriptural and inappropriate public use of it.

We have to take care about the actual effects that happened to Dave Roberson when he decided to do extended speaking in tongues. Those effects that what happened with him. When I decided to do the same over two or three months, I had a different experience.

What happened to me was that my ministry became more effective and recognised. When I preached, people's faith was strengthened. I also found that I was receiving deeper insights into God's Word. In fact, the time I spent praying in tongues raised me up to a higher level of faith with God.

One memorable incident was when I was asked to pray for the mother of a friend from London who was in hospital gravely ill and in danger of dying. I prayed for her and I started praying in a totally different language. It was an urgent, dramatic language. It came too fast from me for me to make it up. Two days later, my friend told me that his mother pulled through and she is still alive today.

John Calvin said in his commentary on 1 Corinthians 14 that the gift of tongues was withdrawn from the Church after the 3rd Century because of the misuse of it in the same way that the Corinthian church was misusing it. This is why Paul had to let them know the correct way of using it.

If people followed the teaching of Paul concerning tongues, we would not hear it being spoken in churches without an interpretation given.

Incidentally, the whole of 1 Corinthians was written for people who were baby Christians who could only take milk. That's what Paul wrote at the start of the book. So, everything that is written in 1 Corinthians is stuff that is meant to be taught in a new Christians class. This includes the operation of the gifts of the Spirit, including tongues. So, if believers in churches are not using the gifts of the Spirit, they are not doing things that even baby Christians should be able to do.

That's how far our contemporary church has fallen from the standard that existed in the early Church.

So those who counsel that using the gift of tongues causes damage or induces churches to get money out of people, their counsel is foolishness and nonsense, and is a blatant disregard for God's inspired Word given through Paul to the Corinthians, and to all who are called by Christ everywhere (this is said at the start of 1 Corinthians).

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Is not the gift of tongues given by the Holy Spirit? How then can we say that we use it? Would not God determine that and not us?

Elder 111 said:

No one prayed more than Jesus I would believe. Did He pray in Tongues? Why a need to pray in tongues? Would not God understand you if you pray in your own language? Why would He prefer an American to pray in Spanish?

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That's what I'm trying to figure out. I feel ridiculous "trying" to pray in tongues. I open my mouth and whisper some kind of semi-arabic sounding tones that I'm sure I got from listening to prayers coming from mosques in one of the Islamic countries I grew up in and I don't feel edified at all.

I'm not saying this tongues thing is complete bunk. I just don't understand it. The more I feel confused about it the more I start to think that if it was really God's will, I wouldn't be feeling so confused? You feel me?

I'm really leaning towards the understanding that "tongues" happen suddenly and only sometimes, to some people. Maybe the book will convince me otherwise by the end? Maybe not?

Blessedj01 said:

That's what I'm trying to figure out. I feel ridiculous "trying" to pray in tongues. I open my mouth and whisper some kind of semi-arabic sounding tones that I'm sure I got from listening to prayers coming from mosques in one of the Islamic countries I grew up in and I don't feel edified at all.

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When one first encounters the matter of tongues from other believers there are certain stages of mind that one is put through. One is that you are missing out. Secondly is trying to 'conjure up' the experience as you note above. The final stage is actually forcing ones self into an imposed performance. In the end I found the entirety of the matter to be somewhat of a phony act.

I'm not saying this tongues thing is complete bunk. I just don't understand it. The more I feel confused about it the more I start to think that if it was really God's will, I wouldn't be feeling so confused? You feel me?

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One can sincerely pray with intellect and honest feelings towards God in Christ without any of the 'act.' When the act comes, then comes also certain 'expectations' which are probably bound to fail. God is actually much more interesting than anything we can conjure up.

I'm really leaning towards the understanding that "tongues" happen suddenly and only sometimes, to some people. Maybe the book will convince me otherwise by the end? Maybe not?

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I accept the matters as a form of sincere expression. Not much more than that.

s

Blessedj01 said:

That's what I'm trying to figure out. I feel ridiculous "trying" to pray in tongues. I open my mouth and whisper some kind of semi-arabic sounding tones that I'm sure I got from listening to prayers coming from mosques in one of the Islamic countries I grew up in and I don't feel edified at all.

I'm not saying this tongues thing is complete bunk. I just don't understand it. The more I feel confused about it the more I start to think that if it was really God's will, I wouldn't be feeling so confused? You feel me?

I'm really leaning towards the understanding that "tongues" happen suddenly and only sometimes, to some people. Maybe the book will convince me otherwise by the end? Maybe not?

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Take a note from Paul in 1 Cor. 14. In this case it would be to pray in a know language than in a unknown tongue.
[FONT='Charis SIL', charis, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] 19Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.[/FONT]

Blessedj01 said:

I'm currently reading a book. It's called, 'The Walk of the Spirit The Walk of Power' by Dave Roberson and in it he says that praying in tongues is the key to opening up the power of the Holy Spirit in our lives. Has anyone read this book? Is it correct about what it says?

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No, I think that sounds like dangerous teaching. If this were the case, it would have much more emphasis in the bible and would have been stated plainly.

I went to a Pentecostal church tonight and STILL felt weird about all the people praying in tongues. Why do I feel this way?

Also, the whole night was focused on MONEY! It was all about raising a few million dollars, there were financial plans on screen for people to donate weekly, the sermon and worship was brilliant but the entire sermon ended with "leaving a legacy" and applying this to the mission of raising this MONEY!

It was so odd. I walked in there and couldn't even find a seat. The seats had names on them...and when I took an empty one a girl kicked me out of it. I eventually moved to the back of the church and stood up but someone helped me find a seat. Then I sat down and another girl kicked me out of that one too!

Thankfully a couple came up and said hi to me later. It was hit and miss for me really. I loved the worship and the atmosphere and the teaching, but I felt this weird thing the whole night.

I mean, they building is huge and they are obviously blessed with money. Everyone looks sharp. The place is modern and well furbished. They have tons of churches...yet they need more money?

Why is it that every church is so focused on raising all this money? Why do we need a couple million for a ministry that hasn't even reached the streets? I mean, I don't see anyone out in the streets ministering on a daily basis. I kept wondering...how much is ENOUGH money for this church to be able to achieve it's vision?

Anyway, not really related to tongues but just throwing in my experience. I'm very hesitant to judge without being in the church family for long enough to see their motivations, I just wish everything hadn't been about cash. Maybe I caught them at the wrong time.

Blessedj01 said:

I'm currently reading a book. It's called, 'The Walk of the Spirit The Walk of Power' by Dave Roberson and in it he says that praying in tongues is the key to opening up the power of the Holy Spirit in our lives. Has anyone read this book? Is it correct about what it says?

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The most obvious question to ask is if this praying in tongues (so-called) is so important that it can open up the "power" of the Holy Spirit, then why doesn't the Bible teach us how to do it? Why doesn't it even talk about it?? The ONLY examples of people talking in tongues were speaking in actual human languages and in the presence of the Jews (to which it was a sign). Wherever Jews were not found, as in Rome, we do NOT find the gift of tongues being displayed.

For anyone who believes they can speak in tongues: have you actually tested it? We are encouraged to test the spirits. Why not record someone speaking in tongues and then give that recording to three or so different people with the gift of interpretation independently of each other and see what interpretations they come up with? If all three of them come up with exactly the same (perhaps not verbatem, but the same specific message) then it might strengthen the argument for the legitimacy of speaking in tongues as the Pentecostals and others believe.

Until then, I remain highly sceptical as I don't believe that it is Biblical and is in fact, I believe, dangerous to open up your mind to anything. We are cautioned to "guard" our mind. How can one be edified by something that they have no idea what they are saying? That's just nonsense. Interestingly, there is not one example of Jesus praying in tongues.

Good points...I am going to keep on doing my research and listening to different perspectives. Such a controversial topic eh?

Blessedj01 said:

That's what I'm trying to figure out. I feel ridiculous "trying" to pray in tongues. I open my mouth and whisper some kind of semi-arabic sounding tones that I'm sure I got from listening to prayers coming from mosques in one of the Islamic countries I grew up in and I don't feel edified at all.

I'm not saying this tongues thing is complete bunk. I just don't understand it. The more I feel confused about it the more I start to think that if it was really God's will, I wouldn't be feeling so confused? You feel me?

I'm really leaning towards the understanding that "tongues" happen suddenly and only sometimes, to some people. Maybe the book will convince me otherwise by the end? Maybe not?

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"Feeling ridiculous" is an emotion and part of your five senses separate from your spirit. Also, it is probably followed by "doubt" that you are not even speaking in tongues as when you said:

I open my mouth and whisper some kind of semi-arabic sounding tones that I'm sure I got from listening to prayers coming from mosques in one of the Islamic countries I grew up in and I don't feel edified at all.

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Satan does not want you to speak in tongues for it is perfect prayer and the manifestation of the gift of holy spirit within you. It is your power base! At first it may seem forced but if you get pass the doubt and "feeling ridiculous" - it will flow through you as rivers of living waters.

v7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

The manifestation of "the gift of holy spirit" is given to every man "each born again believer" for profit.

We know that in the original manuscripts there are no capitlizations. The translators inserted capitalization where they thought it should be capitalized so to change a capital letter does not change the scripture. "Spirit" here is speaking of the gift given by God - in the A.V. of 1611 it was translated with a small "s" then later changed.

v11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Sprit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit (God) dividing "distributing" to every man "each man" severally as he "pronoun going back to the noun [man]" will -

Now they are in harmony producing no contradictions or confusion. The manifestation of the gift of holy spirit is given to each born again believer for overall profit. v11) But all these are energized by God distributing to each born again believer as each born again believer desires or purposes.

I encourage you and wish you the best.

After much study on the subject and of some of the proponents of "Speaking in Tongues" I've discovered there are at least four distinct definitions of the subject: (1) speaking in tongues is a known language used as a sign to unbelievers that what the speaker is saying is from God: I Cor. 14:22; (2) speaking in tongues is the initial evidence of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit: Kenneth Hagin and others of the traditional Pentecostal and modern charismatic movements; (3) speaking in tongues is a Heavenly language used to communicate to God in prayer: I Cor. 14:14, 15; and (4) speaking in tongues is a mystical sound, often guttural, historically associated with paganism and often used for communication between the user and some spiritual power be it Heavenly or Satanic.

If speaking in tongues is so important to our spirituality or indeed our salvation, it behooves us to ask the following questions concerning this subject:
(a) Why didn't Jesus ever speak in tongues or instruct anyone to do so?
(b) When Jesus gave instructions on prayer, why didn't he mention "speaking in tongues?", but instead said:
"when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. "8Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
9After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11Give us this day our daily bread.
12And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen."
(c) if "Speaking in Tongues" is the "initial evidence of the indwelling Holy Spirit", as many preachers teach, and without the Spirit one is not saved (Romans 9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.") then why is one's depending upon "Speaking in Tongues" for salvation any different than depending upon baptism for salvation?
(4) Why isn't the obvious conclusion of the reasoning of (2) and (c) above not only sacrilegious but also blasphemous? and concerning Paul's words in I Cor. 14:15 ... didn't he say it's "unfruitful?"

First Corinthians was a letter written by the Apostle Paul to the Church at Corinth as a scathing rebuke of its practices of worship contrary to the teachings of Paul and was NOT a primer on "Speaking in Tongues." They were engaging in all kinds of immoral acts like: getting drunk at the communion table and even engaging in incest, among them! These immoral acts surely would have grieved the Holy Spirit so badly that anything done "in the spirit", so-called, as "speaking in tongues", would have been a spiritual impossibility.
"Speaking in tongues" as it is used in the charismatic movement today is an emphasis on SELF succumbing to PRIDE. It's also an emphaisis on the Holy Spirit in a direct contradiction to what Jesus said in John 16; "13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself..." Notice, "he shall not speak of himself! The Holy Spirit will emphasize Christ not Himself as in, Paul's words: "puffing up" the believer by "speaking in tongues."

Finally, Speaking in Tongues is a "known language" as in the Day of Pentecost, Acts 2:"
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?"

And besides, can't we agree that God can understand English? French? Spanish? German and so on? Has "Our Daily Bread", the booklet that so many Christians of all denominations use as a daily devotional ever even mentioned "Speaking in Tongues?" Even Oswald Chambers, author of "My Utmost For His Highest" discounted the idea of "Speaking in Tongues" as evidence of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
http://media.colonial.org/files/PDFs/CBC/20131013-pm.pdf

Blessedj01 said:

I'm currently reading a book. It's called, 'The Walk of the Spirit The Walk of Power' by Dave Roberson and in it he says that praying in tongues is the key to opening up the power of the Holy Spirit in our lives. Has anyone read this book? Is it correct about what it says?

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Maybe you should have posted this in a Pentecostal forum, if you don't want to be told that making ransom noises isn't tongues. And, the Bible doesn't teach tongues is a tool "to open up the power of the Holy Spirit in our lives", like you're pagan casting spells.

The prayer of a righteous person has great effectiveness. But, the prayer of tongues is not biblical.

Blessedj01 said:

I'm currently reading a book. It's called, 'The Walk of the Spirit The Walk of Power' by Dave Roberson and in it he says that praying in tongues is the key to opening up the power of the Holy Spirit in our lives. Has anyone read this book? Is it correct about what it says?

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Consider how important Jesus thought it was.

Before He ascended into heaven He told the disciples to wait.

Acts 1:4-5
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. KJV

He had commanded them to "Go". They were to Go and teach all nations and baptize them.

They were to teach all "to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you".

Matt 28:18-20
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. KJV

Yet, Jesus also commanded them to wait.

What were they to wait for?

"but wait for the promise of the Father".

What promise?

Jesus said "ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence".

What would happen to them when they were baptized with the Holy Ghost?

They would receive power to witness.

They did what Jesus said and waited.

When the day came they were all filled with the Holy Ghost and spoke with tongues.

Acts 2:4
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. KJV

If Peter, James, John and the rest was not yet ready to go preach before they were filled with the Holy Ghost(Spirit) and spoke with tongues.

What makes us think that we are ready before doing the same?