• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2009
1,141
25
Oregon
✟1,454.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
.
†. Gen 9:6a . .Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed;

The death penalty here in Gen 9:6 is imposed only upon those who commit murder which Webster's defines as: the crime of unlawfully killing a person; especially with malice aforethought. The key word in that definition is "unlawfully" killing a person.

Capital punishment isn't given as an alternative to prison, nor is it open to debate. God demands it: and anybody who thinks they're in step with God while actively opposing the death penalty; is confused.

†. Num 35:31-34 . .You may not accept a ransom for the life of a murderer who is guilty of a capital crime; he must be put to death. Nor may you accept ransom in lieu of flight to a city of refuge, enabling one to return to live on his land before the death of the priest. You shall not pollute the land in which you live; for blood pollutes the land, and the land can have no expiation for blood that is shed on it, except by the blood of him who shed it. You shall not defile the land in which you live, in which I Myself abide, for I the Lord abide among the Israelite people.

†. Ex 21:12-14 . . He who fatally strikes a man shall be put to death. If he did not do it by design, but it came about by an act of God, I will assign you a place to which he can flee. When a man schemes against another and kills him treacherously, you shall take him from My very altar to be put to death.

†. Rom 13:3-4 . . For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

Some people are flabbergasted at the idea that Christians would believe in the death penalty. Well, I am flabbergasted that anybody might think that Christianity's Christ, an ethnic Jew born under the jurisdiction of Moses' covenanted law (Gal 4:4) and underwent his religion's ritual circumcision (Lev 12:3, Luke 2:21) would frown upon his Father's mandates or, worse, organize a rebellion against either Moses or against Almighty God's sovereign authority (Gal 5:3). Christianity's Christ was the most conservative, fundamental Jew who ever lived. He never even one time violated his Father's law nor encouraged others to do so.

†. Mtt 5:18-19 . . I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

†. John 8:29 . .The one who sent me is with me; He has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases Him.

†. John 10:30 . . I and my Father are one.

†. John 15:10 . . If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in His love.

So then, if Christianity's Christ is pro death penalty, then why did he release the woman of John 8:1-11 allegedly taken in the very act of adultery?

For one thing, Christ was neither a cop nor a judge; he was merely an itinerant preacher. His opponents didn't bring the woman to him to pass sentence; but only to entrap him; viz: to see if he supported the stipulations in Moses' covenanted law regarding adulterers; which says:

†. Lev 20:10 . .The man who commits adultery with another man's wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death.

However, that same Moses' covenanted law stipulates that no one can be executed for a capital crime sans the testimony of a bare-bones minimum of two witnesses.

†. Deut 17:6 . . At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

Moses also stipulated that the witnesses themselves shall be the first ones to execute justice on a condemned prisoner.

†. Deut 17:7 . .The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.

Since no one stepped forward to testify against the woman, she was free to go as Christ wasn't a legitimate witness to her alleged crime; and even if he were, his would have been the only voice against her; not the minimum of two required in capital cases.

But suppose two witnesses had stepped forward. Could they then have proceeded to stone the woman? No. The whole incident took place out in public; viz: it was only a kangaroo court; not a true court of law. Had the Scribes and Pharisees really meant business, they would have arraigned her before the Sanhedrin.

C.L.I.F.F.
/
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2009
1,141
25
Oregon
✟1,454.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
.
†. Gen 9:6b . . For in His image did God make man.

Murdering a human being is just as serious as murdering God. Refusal to enforce the death penalty undervalues the person of Almighty God because Man was made in His likeness. Shouldn't it be a death offense to kill God without justification? Then it has to be a death offense to kill a human being without justification. Those who oppose the death penalty oppose God's feelings about it. They have put themselves in Satan's place, and play Satan, by openly and actively rebelling against the Creator's holy mandates.

Leaders have a responsibility to Almighty God to protect their country's sanctity. According to Num 35:31-34, murder pollutes the land; and the land stays that way until the murderer is executed. In effect then, the murderer's death becomes the country's redemption, and his death is the only atonement that will satisfy the justice of God in such cases. Americans pride themselves as a God fearing nation. And on their money is stamped: In God We Trust. Yet they are grossly neglecting to comply with Almighty God's holy edict to execute murderers.

People were at liberty to live according to the dictates of their own conscience prior to the Flood. And they were pretty much free to kill each other at will. But no more. It is the post-Flood generation's duty under God to execute human beings who take the life of their fellow man in a fit of rage like Cain did to Abel. So don't ever let anyone tell you capital punishment is wrong. Capital punishment is not wrong; au contraire, capital punishment is Divine.

†. Rom 13:3-4 . . For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil.

The death penalty not only has binding jurisdiction in this life, but in the next one too. Capital punishment is the ultimate fate of every lost soul. They will be resurrected to stand trial, and then afterwards every one of them will be put to death by a method akin to burning at the stake.

†. Rev 20:11-15 . .Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into a reservoir of flaming liquid.

John wrote of the lake of fire in the past tense because although the judgment about which he wrote is yet future, he's already seen it; so it's certain to come to pass.

†. Rev 21:8 . . Murderers shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

C.L.I.F.F.
/
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2009
1,141
25
Oregon
✟1,454.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
.
†. Gen 9:7 . . Be fertile, then, and increase; abound on the earth and increase on it.

The idea conveyed here is that Man wasn't supposed to unite and stay in one place, but to scatter, diversify, and live all over the globe.

†. Gen 9:8-10 . . And God said to Noah and to his sons with him: I now establish My covenant with you and your offspring to come, and with every living thing that is with you— birds, cattle, and every wild beast as well —all that have come out of the ark, every living thing on earth.

Noah's covenant is an especially interesting covenant because it was made with both Man and Beast: all living things wherein is the breath of life.

Are people today Noah's offspring that were to come? Yes they are. So we should pay attention to what God told Noah and his sons. "My covenant" applies to everyone; and all the critters too. In fact, all living beings in the post Flood world are under the jurisdiction of the covenant God made with Noah and his family.

†. Gen 9:11 . . I will maintain My covenant with you: never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of a flood, and never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth.

Noah needed to hear that so he wouldn't get jumpy the next time it started to rain really hard in his neighborhood. There is still flooding going on in the world, but certainly not on the same scale as The Flood.

†. Gen 9:12-17 . . God further said: This is the sign that I set for the covenant between Me and you, and every living creature with you, for all ages to come. I have set My bow in the clouds, and it shall serve as a sign of the covenant between Me and the earth. When I bring clouds over the earth, and the bow appears in the clouds, I will remember My covenant between Me and you and every living creature among all flesh, so that the waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh. When the bow is in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures, all flesh that is on earth. That, God said to Noah, shall be the sign of the covenant that I have established between Me and all flesh that is on earth.

Some people say Noah had never seen a rainbow before because they don't believe it ever rained in the antediluvian world. But even if it didn't rain, rainbows aren't restricted to rainy weather. They can be seen in waterfalls, fog, and even in icy air. Since the antediluvian world got some of its irrigation from mists, there's a pretty good chance Noah had seen at least one rainbow by the time he was six hundred years old.

Noah's covenant is still in force; as evidenced by the significant presence of rainbows in prophetic visions.

†. Ezek 1:27b-28a . .There was a radiance all about him. Like the appearance of the bow which shines in the clouds on a day of rain, such was the appearance of the surrounding radiance.

†. Rev 10:1-4 . .Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven. He was robed in a cloud, with a rainbow above his head; his face was like the sun, and his legs were like fiery pillars. He was holding a little scroll, which lay open in his hand. He planted his right foot on the sea and his left foot on the land, and he gave a loud shout like the roar of a lion. When he shouted, the voices of the seven thunders spoke. And when the seven thunders spoke, I was about to write; but I heard a voice from heaven say: Seal up what the seven thunders have said and do not write it down.

Next time you see a rainbow, think of ol' grandpa Noah and think of God's promise— to Noah, to his offspring, to all peoples on this side of the Flood, and to every creature —that the Earth will never again be destroyed by a flood. And remember capital punishment, and remember that the animal world is accountable for taking human life. And when you get yourself a Whopper or a Happy Meal, and sit down to a hearty Thanksgiving turkey dinner, or a tasty dish of Teriyaki chicken, remember it is by God's blessing that the post Flood generation can dine on meat.

FYI: Rabbinical Judaism's version of Noah's Covenant (a.ka. The Seven Laws Of Noah) is a bit longer than Genesis' version.

1) to establish courts of justice

2) not to commit blasphemy

3) not to commit idolatry

4) not to commit incest and adultery

5) not to commit bloodshed

6) not to commit robbery; and

7) not to eat flesh cut from a living animal.

Source: Judaism 101

C.L.I.F.F.
/
 
Upvote 0

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2009
1,141
25
Oregon
✟1,454.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
.
†. Gen 9:18 . .The sons of Noah who came out of the ark were Shem, Ham, and Japheth— Ham being the father of Canaan.

Whoever wrote this section of Genesis, wrote it long after the Flood because the Canaanites didn't exist in Noah's day; nor would they exist at all until many, many years later.

†. Gen 9:19 . .These three were the sons of Noah, and from these the whole world branched out.

It's remarkable that every ethnic, every tribe, every color, and every language, is rooted in just those three men. Every existing human being is alive today from the gene pool of Noah's boys and their wives— Caucasian, Negro, Mongol, Asian, Semite, Aleut, Indians of the Americas, Pacific Islander; and even the Pigmies. Everybody is related to one of those three boys, and also related to each other in Noah. Whenever there is war, it is truly brother against brother. The phrase "fellow man" is not just a feel-good, slap on the back acceptance of someone you might normally feel superior to; no, it's an expression that identifies human beings you are verily— though quite distantly —related to.

All the physical characteristics of the different nations and various tribes, must, therefore, have been present in the genetic constitutions of just those three men and three women. Somehow, by the regular mechanisms of genetics— variation and recombination —all the various groups of nations and tribes developed from that meager post-Flood human beginning.

But what about Mr and Mrs Noah? Didn't they have any more children? After all, Noah still had about three hundred years left to go in his life. Well . . if the Noah's did have any more children, they must have been all girls because the writer said the world was populated by only those three brothers. So if indeed there were Noah girls, they had to find husbands from among their cousins. Those early post-Flood conditions fostered very close intermarriages; but it was harmless in those days because the human genome was still yet relatively young and strong.

†. Gen 9:20 . . Noah, the tiller of the soil, was the first to plant a vineyard.

And what does that mean: he was the first ever to plant a vineyard? I strongly suspect verse 20 means that he was just the first one to raise grapes in the new world; not the first ever in all of history.

†. Gen 9:21a . . He drank of the wine and became drunk,

(chuckle) Looks like grandpa Noah liked to pull a cork now and then.

The Hebrew word for wine in Gen 9:21 is tiyrowsh (tee-roshe') and means: the expressed juice of fruit, and especially grapes, before and during fermentation; also the pulp and skins of the crushed grapes or fresh grape-juice (as just squeezed out). By implication, but rarely, fermented wine.

Tiyrowsh is somewhat ambiguous and can apply to just about any kind of fruit product, even to jams and jellies.

Another word for wine in the Old Testament is from shekar (shay-kawr') and means: an intoxicant, i.e. intensely alcoholic liquor.

Unless the Bible text makes it obvious that a fruit product is intoxicating, it's not a good idea to always assume that it is. Even a kid's drink like Welch's grape juice falls into the category of tiyrowsh. But even so, alcoholic beverages are not always a bad thing. The key to their use is moderation.

Jesus was accused of being a drunk because he enjoyed wine with his meals.

†. Mtt 11:18-19 . . For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say: He has a demon! The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say: Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!

Some have accused Jesus of encouraging drunkenness because he miraculously provided wine for a marriage reception in John 2:1-11. But that same logic could be used to accuse him of promoting gluttony too; since he multiplied loaves and fishes on other occasions.

To accuse Jesus of encouraging drunkenness overlooks the culture of his day, and it also assumes, without grounds, that the adults present at the wedding in Cana were irresponsible. Since there's so few facts at hand, I think we should give them all the benefit of the doubt; don't you? And anyway; so what if the wine was alcoholic? Intoxicating beverages are not inherently evil in and of themselves. It's the quantities a person imbibes that matters.

Strong drink is a gift from God.

†. Ps 104:10-15 . .You make springs gush forth in torrents; they make their way between the hills, giving drink to all the wild beasts; the wild asses slake their thirst. The birds of the sky dwell beside them and sing among the foliage. You water the mountains from Your lofts; the earth is sated from the fruit of Your work. You make the grass grow for the cattle, and herbage for man’s labor that he may get food out of the earth— wine that cheers the hearts of men, oil that makes the face shine, and bread that sustains man’s life.

The word for wine in that passage is yayin (yah'-yin) and means: to effervesce; wine (as fermented); by implication, intoxication.

So don't knock alcoholic beverages. They're a gift from God, and can even be used as a medication.

†. Luk 10:33-34 . . But a certain Samaritan, who was on a journey, came upon him; and when he saw him, he felt compassion, and came to him, and bandaged up his wounds, pouring oil and wine on them; and he put him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.

†. 1Tim 5:23 . . Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

Alcoholic beverages help some people cope.

†. Prv 31:6-7 . . Give strong drink to him who is perishing, and wine to him whose life is bitter. Let him drink and forget his poverty, and remember his trouble no more.

I have met many a cheerless Christian who could benefit from a stiff drink now and then. But again, moderation is the key with all things; especially things like tobacco, alcohol, and food. It's the quantities of alcohol a person consumes that matters the most. It's not the drink itself; rather, it's excessive drinking that's condemned and discouraged. (Eph 5:18, Titus 2:3, 1Pet 4:3)

The Bible doesn't discourage drinking wine; it's against getting drunk on wine. In the same vein, church officers aren't forbidden to drink wine; rather, they're forbidden to drink much wine. (1Tim 3:3, 1Tim 3:8, Titus 1:7)

C.L.I.F.F.
/
 
Upvote 0

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2009
1,141
25
Oregon
✟1,454.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
.
†. Gen 9:21b . . and he uncovered himself within his tent.

Noah was indoors, and in the privacy of his own home: so nobody should be all that shocked at him taking his clothes off. The focus of this incident isn't upon Noah anyway, but upon his wicked son Ham.

Noah's home at this point in time was a tent; which isn't the typical domicile of a man who farms. Nomads live in tents, farmers life in houses. Vineyards take time to grow to maturity and a nomad isn't likely to wait around long enough for that. So why was he living in a portable shelter instead of a permanent building? At this particular time, Noah's home was probably under construction. No doubt he put a higher priority on his livelihood than on his quality of life. A nice home is a senseless luxury when there's no food on the table.

†. Prv 24:27 . . Finish your outdoor work and get your fields ready; after that, build your house.

That's good advice for young people. Trades and careers should be up and running before settling down with a spouse and starting a family. People who get married too soon typically have lots of financial problems. When people are struggling to keep their heads above water, the romance suffers and devotion can die; ending in divorce, and possibly single parenthood.

†. Gen 9:22a . . Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father’s nakedness

(gasp!) Didn't anyone ever teach that boy to knock first? What if his mom had been naked in there too?

†. Gen 9:22b . . and told his two brothers outside.

Ham wasn't just a little kid who stumbled into his parents' bedroom. He was a grown man, married, and quite possibly by this time his son Canaan was already born. Catching his dad naked was probably an innocent enough accident; but Ham couldn't let it go. No, he just had to broadcast it and make sport of his dad. Good grief, you'd think he would at least put the covers over Noah so no one else would see him that way.

Ham didn't seem to respect his dad very much. It's a very black hearted demon seed who takes pleasure in the shame and misfortune of their parents. I wonder if that's what Ham felt as he gazed down at his dad. Did it actually make him feel good to see the old gentleman in drunken disgrace?

†. 1Cor 13:3-7 . . If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

So although the Flood wiped out sinful people, it didn't wipe out sin did it? No, sin survived, and stowed away aboard the ark within the very family of Noah; the most righteous man on Earth; before the Flood and after the Flood (cf. Ezek 14:13-20). That only goes to show you that, as in the case of Cain and Abel, it isn't unusual for otherwise good parents, through no fault of their own, to engender a wicked kid.

†. Prv 17:25 . . A stupid son is vexation for his father and a heartache for the woman who bore him.

C.L.I.F.F.
/
 
Upvote 0

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2009
1,141
25
Oregon
✟1,454.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
.
†. Gen 9:23 . . But Shem and Japheth took a cloth, placed it against both their backs and, walking backward, they covered their father’s nakedness; their faces were turned the other way, so that they did not see their father’s nakedness.

Good lads! Those two men respected their dad and did the right thing by him. It's only too clear that Ham despised his father. You know, when you love people, you won't demean them, nor ridicule them, nor wish them disgrace, nor do anything at all that might tarnish their reputation. Love reveals itself by always looking out for the best interests of others.

Disrespect for one's elders eventually became a very serious offense.

†. Ex 21:15 . . He who strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death.

†. Lev 20:9 . . If anyone insults his father or his mother, he shall be put to death; he has insulted his father and his mother —his bloodguilt is upon him.

†. Ex 20:12 . . Honor your father and your mother, that you may long endure on the land that the Lord your God is assigning to you.

†. Eph 6:1-3 . . Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), that it may be well with you, and that you may live long on the earth.

Why should people respect their parents? Because it's right. People who disrespect their parents reveal a hidden contempt for Almighty God.

†. 1John 4:20 . . If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his kin, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his kin, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.

Ham's act is seen even more base when juxtaposed with The Flood. Noah's ark saved Ham's butt, and this is how his son repaid the favor? When Noah got off the ark, he reciprocated God's kindness with gratitude and burnt offerings. Ham reciprocated his father's kindness with mockery and public disgrace. There are those among the Serpent's seed, as were Cain and Ham, who hate good simply for the very good's sake.

†. 1John 3:12-13 . . Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother's were righteous. Do not be surprised, my brothers, if the world hates you.

One of the characteristics of the end-time era is a lack of kindness towards one's own kin.

†. 2 Tim 3:1-5 . . But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, hard-hearted towards kindred, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God.

C.L.I.F.F.
/
 
Upvote 0

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2009
1,141
25
Oregon
✟1,454.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
.
†. Gen 9:24-25a . .When Noah woke up from his wine and learned what his youngest son had done to him, he said: Cursed be Canaan;

I'd be curious to know exactly how Noah "learned" what his youngest son had done to him.

On the surface it appears Noah is reacting to the incident of the wine and nudity. But it's more likely he was just tardy on sharing prophetic predictions of the boys' futures before this episode; and Ham's conduct served to light a fire under him to take care of neglected patriarchal duties.

Some expositors have wrangled with Gen 9:25a and tried to figure out just exactly why Noah leveled a curse at Ham's son rather than at Ham. After all, Ham is the one on record who mocked his naked dad, not Noah's grandson Canaan. And Canaan wasn't Ham's only son; he had Cush, Mizraim, and Put too; but the curse is leveled at only one boy.

Can people really launch curses? Wouldn't that imply human beings have supernatural powers to control history and circumstances? No, people as a rule cannot launch curses. Noah was a prophet; and in his capacity as one, he relayed information from God regarding his sons' posterities. Exactly why he chose to speak about the future of his family at this particular time is unclear; but obviously God was behind it.

Apparently Canaan, who had a wicked dad, was a demon seed, and God was already against the lad. Canaan may have even been Ham's favorite, so God's opinion surely made him feel badly for the boy. We all want the best for our kids— even bad people feel that way about their children. Canaan was Noah's grandson and it could not have given the old gentleman pleasure to reveal to the boy's dad how God felt about him.

The word for curse is from 'arar (aw-rar') and means: to execrate. Webster's defines execrate as: to declare to be evil or detestable; denounce; to detest utterly. A curse is not always a doom forced upon someone or something like in Gen 3:17. A person cursed can mean that they are just simply a bad apple. There's no need to put a hex on an apple to make it go bad when it's already bad. That is what Noah saw about Canaan. He was, and would be, a bad apple who would engender a whole colony of bad apples; same as Cain did prior to the Flood.

It's very doubtful Noah actually cast some sort of hex upon Canaan. It's more likely he simply stated the obvious: that his grandson was both incorrigible and irreverent; and would never have respect for anything dear to God's heart just as Mr. Esau, whom we'll visit on down the line here in Genesis. God hated that boy before he was even born (Rom 9:10-13). It's just a fact of life that some people come into the world with one foot already in Hell before they're even old enough to eat solid food.

The Serpent is a totally unholy creature. It never does anything good for Man nor does it ever willingly cooperate with Man's creator. It is totally anti-God; and that is what Canaan was— an unholy man who engendered an unholy, detestable posterity. Cain, the first of the Serpent's seed, engendered an unholy civilization in the antediluvian world. Canaan, himself a Serpentary offspring, went on to do the very same thing in the new world

†. Gen 9:25b . . the lowest of slaves shall he be to his brothers.

That's a very derogatory remark, and more likely a colloquialism rather than a literal prediction; sort of like the one God made regarding the Serpent; that it would crawl on its belly and eat dirt; viz: henceforth be regarded the lowest sort of filth imaginable. Well, that was Noah's prediction regarding Canaan; and it came true. The people of the land of Canaan became so abhorrent that God, in Deut 7:1-5 and Deut 18:9-14, commanded Yhvh's people Israel to drive them out, to exterminate them, to reject their religions, and to avoid intermarriage.

C.L.I.F.F.
/
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2009
1,141
25
Oregon
✟1,454.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
.
†. Gen 9:26a . . And he said: Blessed be The Lord, The God of Shem;

Yhvh (The Lord) is said to be Shem's god. But Yhvh is not said to be the god of either Ham or Japheth. Shem is the only one of the three brothers of whom it is said: "Yhvh, the God of" perhaps implying that the Bible's God didn't become Shem's god just because the family he was born into worshipped that particular god, rather because he personally chose the Bible's God to be his god. A lot of adults are in a religion simply because that's the one they grew up with.

†. Gen 9:26b . . let Canaan be a slave to them.

The pronoun them would refer to the peoples that would descend from Shem.

†. Gen 9:27a . . May God enlarge Japheth,

That seems more a prayer more than a prediction. Japheth is generally regarded as the father of many of the Gentile nations, most particularly the Romans and the Greeks, who became mighty world powers. Japheth seemed like an okay kind of guy who had a sense of propriety, and respected matters of right and wrong. People like him; even though not particularly religious, will listen to reason, and can often be persuaded to do the right thing. He proved at least that much when he assisted brother Shem to cover their dad's nudity in a discreet way. It is so cool to see someone wishing good for the Gentiles so early in human history.

†. Gen 9:27b . . and let him dwell in the tents of Shem;

That doesn't necessarily mean Shem's people and Japheth's people would mingle and assimilate. The expression "dwell in the tents of" is colloquialism sometimes used to denote compliance or conformity. Here's an example of just the opposite of what we might call dwelling in the tents of Shem.

†. Ps 84:11 . . Better one day in Your courts than a thousand [anywhere else]; I would rather stand at the threshold of God’s house than dwell in the tents of the wicked.

The "tents of the wicked" regards a secular life style that has no place in it for God and doesn't allow His spirit an influence in one's personal life. The remainder of that Psalm is dedicated to the kind of people of whom we could say: dwell in the tents of Shem.

†. Ps 84:12-13 . . For The Lord God is sun and shield; The Lord bestows grace and glory; He does not withhold His bounty from those who live without blame. O Lord of hosts, happy is the man who trusts in You.

People who live in the tents of the wicked and walk where the wicked walk; sure don't walk where Shem walks. Not all of Japheth's people would dwell in the tents of Shem. But the idea is that Japheth's people were not cursed like Canaan's. Many of them would become God-fearing, and be moral and live right— though not all of course.

†. Prv 2:1-15 . . My son, if you accept my words and treasure up my commandments; if you make your ear attentive to wisdom and your mind open to discernment; if you call to understanding and cry aloud to discernment, if you seek it as you do silver and search for it as for treasures, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and attain knowledge of God.

. . For the Lord grants wisdom; knowledge and discernment are by His decree. He reserves ability for the upright and is a shield for those who live blamelessly, guarding the paths of justice, protecting the way of those loyal to Him. You will then understand what is right, just, and equitable— every good course.

. . For wisdom will enter your mind and knowledge will delight you. Foresight will protect you, and discernment will guard you. It will save you from the way of evil men, from men who speak duplicity, who leave the paths of rectitude to follow the ways of darkness, who rejoice in doing evil and exult in the duplicity of evil men, men whose paths are crooked and who are devious in their course.

Proverbs 2:1-15 is a promise made to everybody— whether Jew or Gentile makes no difference —who determine within themselves to follow the wisdom of the Bible's God. In doing so, they will "dwell in the tents of Shem"; as Ruth did.

†. Ruth 2:11-12 . . Boaz replied: I've been told all about what you have done for your mother-in-law since the death of your husband— how you left your father and mother and your homeland and came to live with a people you did not know before. May The Lord repay you for what you have done. May you be richly rewarded by The Lord, The God of Israel, under whose wings you have come to take refuge.

†. Gen 9:27c . . and let Canaan be a slave to them."

Not all of Ham's descendants would become subservient to the people of Shem and Japheth. Only those in Canaan's line.

†. Gen 9:28-29 . . Noah lived after the Flood 350 years. And all the days of Noah came to 950 years; then he died.

Another righteous man bites the dust. Noah lived twenty more years than Adam, but nineteen less than Methuselah— no doubt a great role model and a tremendous influence upon the minds of all his grandchildren. He surely must have had a huge brood of them in the new world by the time those final 350 years ended.

C.L.I.F.F.
/
 
Upvote 0

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2009
1,141
25
Oregon
✟1,454.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
.
†. Gen 10:1 . .These are the lines of Shem, Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah: sons were born to them after the Flood.

Chapter 10 is a tiresome list of genealogies that some have found interesting enough to devote entire books to; generating a catalogue of nations connecting Noah's descendants to the ancient civilizations and even today's. But I'm going to comment upon only a few salient features.

Just a note regarding genealogies. Some have attempted to date the Flood and the tenure of mankind on the planet using Bible genealogies. But that's an untenable way to go about it because the genealogies aren't precise enough measures of time.

There are a number of places in the Bible where the term begot doesn't necessarily denote a direct father/son relationship but just means: became the father of. A good one is Mtt 1:8 where it says that Jehoram was the father of Uzziah. Three generations are omitted. So actually the term "begot" often just refers to posterity, and not always to immediate offspring.

†. Gen 10:5 . . [These are the descendants of Japheth] by their lands— each with its language— their clans and their nations.

Diverse languages didn't appear right away. First comes the tower of Babel. It was after that when people's languages became what we might call "foreign".

†. Gen 10:8-9 . . Cush was the father of Nimrod, who grew to be a mighty warrior on the earth. He was a mighty hunter before The Lord; that is why it is said: Like Nimrod, a mighty hunter before The Lord. The first centers of his kingdom were Babylon, Erech, Akkad and Calneh, in Shinar.

At first, mankind was scattered out in individual clans, and leadership was pretty much restricted to local patriarchal Dons and Sheiks. But Nimrod wasn't content with local rule. He was resolved not only to tower above his neighbors, not only to be eminent among them, but to lord it over them. The same spirit that actuated the mighty men and the men of renown prior to the Flood, (by reason of whom the Flood came) now revived in Mr. Nimrod. There are some in whom ambition and affectation of dominion seem to be bred in the bone. Nothing short of Hell itself will humble and break the proud spirits of men such as those.

Nimrod is interesting. He had humble beginnings. At first as a hunter; supplying meat to frontier towns and selling pelts at trading posts. That was probably his profession up until his exploits became famous and he began to realize it was far more profitable to go into politics. Lots of great men, some good and some bad, had humble beginnings— Abraham Lincoln, King David, and even Hitler. Timely circumstances, and fortuitous opportunities, catapulted those otherwise insignificant men up to very high levels of control over their fellow men.

To this very day Nimrod is still known as the outdoorsman who would be king. He was such a famous icon of that day that his example became descriptive of others who worked their way to the top like he did— men of vision, daring, energy, strong personal ambition, and dogged perseverance. The common personality trait, among such men, is their strong desire not just to bear rule, but to quite dominate people. There are those for whom it isn't enough to win; no, it isn't enough for people like that to win: everyone else has to lose.

BTW: Nimrod was among Noah's grandchildren; as we all are today.

†. Gen 10:21a . . Sons were also born to Shem, ancestor of all the descendants of Eber

Descendants of Eber (most notably Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob) became known as Eberites: a.k.a. Hebrews.

The remainder of chapter 10 amounts to little more than a registry and I don't really want to spend any more time here.

C.L.I.F.F.
/
 
Upvote 0

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2009
1,141
25
Oregon
✟1,454.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
.
†. Gen 11:1 . . Everyone on earth had the same language and the same words.

Is there a difference between language and words? Oh yes, very definitely. The Hebrew word for language is from saphah (saw-faw') which means: the lip. The one for words is from dabar (daw-baw') which means: a word (as spoken or written)

Spoken languages are a combination of words and lips; viz: vocabulary and accents. It's one thing to know the words of a language, but it is quite another to speak them with the correct accent. In that day, everyone used the same words and spoke them with the very same accent.

†. Gen 11:2 . . And as they migrated from the east, they came upon a valley in the land of Shinar and settled there.

The name Shinar was of course given later because these early migrations were to lands heretofore uninhabited. According to Gen 10:10, Shinar became Nimrod's turf. This particular migration was from the east. The ark went aground somewhere in the highlands of Armenia. So from there, the people, whose numbers are totally unknown, went out west (actually somewhat southwest) looking for greener pastures. Although the region of Shinar has not been precisely pinpointed, we can take a relatively educated guess at it.

†. Dan 1:1-2 . . In the third year of the reign of King Jehoiakim of Judah, King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon came to Jerusalem and laid siege to it. The Lord delivered King Jehoiakim of Judah into his power, together with some of the vessels of the House of God, and he brought them to the land of Shinar to the house of his god; he deposited the vessels in the treasury of his god.

The Shinar of Daniel's day is apparently the region where Babylon was located. Babylon's location today is marked by a broad area of ruins just east of the Euphrates River, 90 km (56 mi) south of Baghdad, Iraq. It's part of an area commonly known as the Fertile Crescent; a very large region arching across the northern part of the Syrian Desert and extending from the Nile Valley to the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. In the early post Flood years, this region was very lush. But today much of it is arid wasteland.

†. Gen 11:3a . .They said to one another: Come, let us make bricks and burn them hard. (Brick served them as stone)

Brick are blocks of clay or other ceramic used for construction and decorative facing. Bricks may be dried in the sun but are more usually baked in a kiln. They cost relatively little, resist dampness and heat, and can actually last longer than some kinds of stone.

Brick was the chief building material of ancient Mesopotamia and Palestine. The inhabitants of Jericho in Palestine were building with brick about 9,000 years ago. That's about 5,000 years before Abraham's day.

Sumerian and Babylonian builders constructed ziggurats, palaces, and city walls of sun-dried brick and covered them with more durable kiln-baked, often brilliantly glazed brick, arranged in decorative pictorial friezes. Later the Persians and the Chinese built in brick, for example, the Great Wall of China. The Romans built large structures such as baths, amphitheaters, and aqueducts in brick, which they often covered with marble facing.

The invention of brick, and the skills to build with it, was possibly a technology carried over from the antediluvian world.

C.L.I.F.F.
/
 
Upvote 0

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2009
1,141
25
Oregon
✟1,454.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
.
†. Gen 11:3b . . and bitumen served them as mortar.

According to Webster's, bitumen is any of various mixtures of hydrocarbons (as tar) often together with their nonmetallic derivatives that occur naturally or are obtained as residues after heat-refining natural substances (e.g. petroleum).

The stuff can be deadly if one isn't careful because once your feet become stuck in it, they are very difficult to extract; as the museum at the La Brea tar pits in Los Angeles attests. But it's a handy building material too. Noah sealed the ark with a bituminous material, and Moses owes his life to it.

†. Ex 2:1-10 . . A certain man of the house of Levi went and married a Levite woman. The woman conceived and bore a son; and when she saw how beautiful he was, she hid him for three months. When she could hide him no longer, she got a wicker basket for him and caulked it with bitumen and pitch. She put the child into it and placed it among the reeds by the bank of the Nile. And his sister stationed herself at a distance, to learn what would befall him.

. .The daughter of Pharaoh came down to bathe in the Nile, while her maidens walked along the Nile. She spied the basket among the reeds and sent her slave girl to fetch it. When she opened it, she saw that it was a child, a boy crying. She took pity on it and said: This must be a Hebrew child. Then his sister said to Pharaoh’s daughter: Shall I go and get you a Hebrew nurse to suckle the baby for you? And Pharaoh’s daughter answered: Yes.

. . So the girl went and called the child's mother. And Pharaoh’s daughter said to her: Take this child and nurse it for me, and I will pay your wages. So the woman took the child and nursed it. When the child grew up, she brought him to Pharaoh's daughter, who made him her son. She named him Moses, explaining: I drew him out of the water.

NOTE: Moses' name is pretty interesting. It actually means to draw someone out of water like when lifeguards pull someone in distress to safety.

Thanks to bitumen, Moses became an Egyptian citizen and lived a life of luxury in Pharaoh's palace. That must have needled old man Pharaoh to no end because he had given an order to kill all the Hebrew baby boys and now look what the cat dragged in. He couldn't very well order the guards to kill his daughter's newly adopted son, now could he? Pharaoh was stuck with a Hebrew grandson; the very race of people he loathed. (cf. Gen 43:32, Gen 46:34)

C.L.I.F.F.
/
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2009
1,141
25
Oregon
✟1,454.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
.
†. Gen 11:4 . . And they said: Come, let us build us a city, and a tower with its top in the sky, to make a name for ourselves; else we shall be scattered all over the world.

Magnificent cities have a way of attracting tourism, commerce, and industry. People want to come and visit, and to live there. Politically, their scheme made good sense. More people equals more prosperity; resulting in more power and control over the region— and of course the larger their tax base the more city services they could provide their citizens; including an effective civil defense program.

There is nothing really intrinsically wrong in building a large beautiful city. But in their case, it wasn't the right time for it. God wanted the early post-diluvians to move out and populate the entire globe, not just one local region.

NOTE: one of the orders of business in the book of Revelation is the demolition of the world's man-made cities.

†. Rev 16:18-20 . . And there were noises, and thunders, and flashing lights; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great . . and the cities of the nations fell;

Along with the world-wide demolition of man-made cities, will be large-scale movements of the earth's tectonic plates; so much so that all the dry land-mass will be joined together as one humongous continent; and the mountains of earth— initially formed by millennia of volcanism, sedimentation, and plate subduction —will be pressed and ironed down flat.

†. Rev 16:20 . . and every island vanished, and the mountains were gone.

The texture of earth's surface, at that time, will resemble that of a cue ball: a very, very vast savanna. As a result of those catastrophic geological changes, the human race will find itself suddenly catapulted back to the stone age, which easily explains why there are no mechanized vehicles in the book of Revelation.

†. Gen 11:5 . .Yhvh came down to look at the city and tower that man had built,

That verse presents an interesting theological problem. Wouldn't it make better sense by saying Yhvh looked down, instead of saying the Yhvh "came" down? Why bother to come down? Doesn't the Bible's God see all and know all? Isn't God omniscient? Can't He see everything from right where He is? Yes, the Bible's God can do that alright; but a certain celestial being in the Old Testament scriptures— often labeled Yhvh —is not always God in person. It's a divine agent who stands in for God, speaks for God, reports to God, and takes care of God's business in this world of ours.

†. Ex 23:20-22 . . I am sending an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have made ready. Pay heed to him and obey him. Do not defy him, for he will not pardon your offenses, since My Name is in him; but if you obey him and do all that I say, I will be an enemy to your enemies and a foe to your foes.

The divine agent's name is his Master's name, and therefore demands and merits all the worship and respect and obedience due to the name of God. That mysterious being is quite frightful.

†. Gen 11:6 . . and Yhvh said: If, as one people with one language for all, this is how they have begun to act, then nothing that they may propose to do will be out of their reach.

To whom was Yhvh speaking when He turned in his report? Very likely to the God that Yhvh represents. I think what actually took place was that the hidden God told Yhvh about what was happening down on the planet, and Yhvh just had to go on down and see for himself: hence; Gen 11:6. This all probably sounds a bit weird, but since it's in the Bible, we have to come to grips with it one way or another that there exists a very important spirit being who has authority to be addressed by the name of God.

It's truly amazing what Man can accomplish when he's unified. Their scheme would certainly have succeeded if The Lord didn't intervene and throw a monkey wrench in the works.

C.L.I.F.F.
/
 
Upvote 0

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2009
1,141
25
Oregon
✟1,454.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
.
†. Gen 11:7 . . Let us, then, go down and confound their speech there, so that they shall not understand one another's speech.

Let us? Who R us? What's taking place here? According to ancient Judaism, "us" was a select team comprised of a divine being whose name is The Word of The Lord; plus seventy highly specialized, hand-picked angels.

T. And The Lord said: Behold, the people is one, and the language of all of them one: and this they have thought to do: and now they will not be restrained from doing whatever they imagine. And The Lord said to the seventy angels which stand before Him: Come, we will descend and will there commingle their language, that a man shall not understand the speech of his neighbor.

. . And the Word of The Lord was revealed against the city, and with Him seventy angels, having reference to seventy nations, each having its own language, and thence the writing of its own hand: and He dispersed them from thence upon the face of all the earth into seventy languages. And one knew not what his neighbor would say: but one slew the other; and they ceased from building the city. Therefore He called the name of it Bavel, because there did The Lord commingle the speech of all the inhabitants of the earth, and from thence did The Lord disperse them upon the faces of all the earth. (Targum Jonathan)

†. Gen 11:8 . .Thus the Lord scattered them from there over the face of the whole earth; and they stopped building the city.

The language barrier was only a temporary setback because later on the city of Babylon was eventually built. But for now, the people had no choice. It was just impossible to continue.

There are forces at work today in the world attempting to break down racial and language barriers. I believe that is not wise. I'm all for breaking down prejudice; but not the barriers. God initiated those divisions in the human race to prevent humanity from uniting in a common cause against Him; so it's better if those divisions remain for now.

†. Gen 11:9 . .That is why it was called Babel, because there the Lord confounded the speech of the whole earth; and from there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth.

The word Babel (baw-bel') means confusion. Because of the confusion of languages, there was nothing to do but separate, with only individual family units remaining intact. No further urban cooperation between families was possible; so each family group had to learn how to meet its own needs directly. Eventually, if not immediately, each family became a tribe and moved away from Babel to work out its own manner of life, as God intended for them to do in the first place.

As each family and tribal unit migrated away from Babel, not only did they each develop a distinctive culture, but also they each developed distinctive physical and biological characteristics. Since they could communicate only with members of their own family unit, there was no immediate possibility of marrying outside the family. Hence it was necessary to establish new families composed of very close relatives, for several generations at least.

It is well established that genetic variations take place very quickly in a small inbreeding population, but only very slowly in a large interbreeding one. In the latter, only the dominant genes will find common expression in the outward physical characteristics of the population, reflecting more or less average characteristics, even though the genetic factors for specifically distinctive characteristics are latent in the gene pool of the population.

In small groups, however, the particular suite of genes that may be present in its members, though recessive in a larger group, will have the opportunity to become openly expressed and even dominant under these circumstances. Thus, in a very few generations of such inbreeding, distinctive characteristics of skin color, height, hair texture, facial features, temperament, environmental adjustment, etc, could come to be associated with particular tribes and nations.

Since Earth's population was still relatively young and, since, before the Flood there had been a minimum of environmental influences to produce genetic mutations, there was as yet no danger from inbreeding. After many further centuries had elapsed, however, the accumulation of mutations and the associated danger of congenital defects had become sufficiently serious to cause God to declare close marriages illegal. (Lev 18:6-14)

It's a striking commentary on the importance of human language to note that worldwide migrations, and the development of distinct tribes and nations— even their distinctive physical characteristics— were a direct result of Divine imposition of diverse languages.

As time went on, of course, people found they could, by diligent effort, learn each other's tongue. The confounding of languages applied only to the phonologies, not to the underlying thought processes which are a part of the uniqueness of the human mind. Mankind is still of one "kind" even though he was divided "according to their clans and languages, by their lands, according to their nations" (Gen 10:31). Eventually this would permit a degree of intermarriage and mixing of nationalities, but the institution of distinct nations became permanent.

For many, many years after the Babel incident, almost nothing is revealed about the further history of mankind. The tribes were migrating and cultures developing; and knowledge of the True God receding further and further from man's consciousness. In the far north, a great ice sheet was advancing over the continent; in the south, regions that are now deserts (Sahara, Arabia, etc.) were enjoying a pluvial period, with abundant water resources able to support developing civilizations throughout the world.

The tower of Babel was, I believe, not a center for just one religion, but likely resembled the function and variety of a modern shopping mall. Nimrod and his associates very likely made sure to have on hand a good selection of the more popular religions so that people wouldn't have to leave Babel to make pilgrimages to other places for their worship. Astrology, wicca, idolatry, spiritism, animism, paganism, nature, human deities, oracles, and even something for the old-fashioned oddballs who preferred the god of Noah. It was all there. So when people scattered out all over the world, they took their religious preferences with them and incorporated their choices into their own individual cultures; thus spreading abroad all of the more common, and age old, religious philosophies.

Though these events were of great importance in world history, they're passed over rather silently in scripture, since nothing of consequence was happening in revelational history. God was no longer working directly with and through mankind as a whole, since they all had rebelled against Him; and the time was not yet propitious for Him to begin to prepare a special nation to receive and transmit His thoughts to the other nations. The latter must first be established in the world, and a suitable man— Abraham —chosen and trained to establish that one special nation: the people of Israel.

C.L.I.F.F.
/
 
Upvote 0

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2009
1,141
25
Oregon
✟1,454.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
.
†. Gen 11:10a . .This is the line of Shem.

Well; that's pretty much about it for the other brothers. From now on, the Bible will direct its focus mainly upon Shem's line. But not all. Just specific ones that are connected to Abraham; and ultimately to Messiah.

Grandpa Noah was still alive at this time and must have been watching the adventures of his posterity with a great deal of interest; especially the Babel incident and the dispersion of his offspring all over the world.

Noah was a pretty simple kind of guy. He probably tore apart the ark for its wood and built a home, and barns, and whittled fence posts and split rails to corral his livestock. The rest of the ark's lumber he could distribute to his sons and grandchildren for their own ranches after setting aside enough firewood for many years to come. He more than likely stayed pretty close to where the ark went aground and stayed behind when the others migrated out west. After all, if Noah could raise food right where he was, plus his grapes, then why move away? He'd seen it all anyway and lived the adventure of a lifetime.

†. Gen 11:10b . . Shem was 100 years old when he begot Arpachshad, two years after the Flood.

That would make Shem about 97 years old when the flood began.

†. Gen 11:11 . . After the birth of Arpachshad, Shem lived 500 years and begot sons and daughters.

Each of the patriarchs probably had at least as many daughters as well as sons even though the girls names are rarely listed in the record.

†. Gen 11:12-25 . .When Arpachshad had lived 35 years, he begot Shelah. After the birth of Shelah, Arpachshad lived 403 years and begot sons and daughters . .When Nahor had lived 29 years, he begot Terah. After the birth of Terah, Nahor lived 119 years and begot sons and daughters.

Included in the genealogy of Gen 11:12-25 was a man named Eber. His name carries on to this day in a race of people well known as Hebrews; for the Old Testament word for Hebrew is `Ibriy (ib-ree'); which means an Eberite; viz: a descendant of Eber.

It's glaringly apparent that longevity had really started declining within just a few hundred years after the Flood's end. Prior, it was common for people to live nine hundred years. But at this point in the Bible, the human life span is beginning to shrink rapidly. Noah lived 950 years (about the same as his antediluvian forebears), but Shem lived only 600. It became even worse by the time of Nahor; who only lived to 148. Today, even the healthiest among us begins to decline as early as our mid thirties.

There is something different and destructive about the world's post Flood ecology. Since Noah's day, both genetic, and somatic mutations have increased significantly. This problem has baffled scientists for years and no one seems to know yet just why our body cells age and deteriorate so fast. Whoever solves that problem will get very rich from it, that's for sure.

C.L.I.F.F.
/
 
Upvote 0

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2009
1,141
25
Oregon
✟1,454.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
.
†. Gen 11:26-27 . .When Terah had lived 70 years, he begot Abram, Nahor, and Haran. Now this is the line of Terah: Terah begot Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begot Lot.

Although it doesn't say so, Abram and Sarai very possibly took Lot in with them after his dad Haran's demise. By the time of Terah, Shem's line had slipped away and no longer worshipped Yhvh in spite of their solid Noahic heritage.

†. Josh 24:2-3 . .Then Joshua said to all the people: Thus said the Lord, the God of Israel: In olden times, your forefathers— Terah, father of Abraham and father of Nahor —lived beyond the Euphrates and worshiped other gods. But I took your father Abraham from beyond the Euphrates and led him through the whole land of Canaan and multiplied his offspring. I gave him Isaac,

Because their dad worshipped other gods, the two brothers, Abram and Nahor, grew up as idolators until Noah's god broke the chain, appeared to Abram, and told him to leave his relatives, and get out of Ur.

Shem lived 502 more years after he got off the Ark. So he had an opportunity to know his grandson Abram— that is; if the genealogies have no gaps in them. I don't know if Shem ever visited Ur, or if Terah ever visited Shem's home, but it is very likely they all stayed in touch somehow.

You really have to wonder what happened with Terah. His granddads Shem and Noah actually came off the ark and saw the Flood for themselves. They were also eyewitnesses to the antediluvian world too. You would think their testimony would command some respect and everyone would listen to it. Apparently, life in Ur's society eventually swayed Terah to lose his faith in Noah's god. I think young Abram was fascinated by grandpa Noah's stories and wanted to get to know his God better; but it was just impossible in the environment of Ur.

†. Gen 11:28 . . Haran died in the lifetime of his father Terah, in his native land, Ur of the Chaldeans.

The Grim Reaper cares not for the age of his victims, whether young or whether old. Haran died before his dad.

You know, anybody can die; it's not all that difficult; and people don't have to be old. Even the young and inexperienced do it all the time. Many a parent has buried their children before they even had a chance to live.

†. Ecc 9:10-12 . .Whatever it is in your power to do, do with all your might. For there is no action, nor reasoning, nor learning, nor wisdom in the netherworld, where you are headed…. For the time of mischance comes to all. And a man cannot even know his time. As fishes are enmeshed in a fatal net, and as birds are trapped in a snare, so men are caught at the time of calamity, when it comes upon them without warning.

C.L.I.F.F.
/
 
Upvote 0

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2009
1,141
25
Oregon
✟1,454.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
.
†. Gen 11:29 . . Abram and Nahor took to themselves wives, the name of Abram's wife being Sarai and that of Nahor's wife Milcah, the daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah and Iscah.

Nahor married a niece; the daughter of his brother Haran. And Abram, according to Gen 20:12, married a half sister; the daughter of his father Terah. Such close marriages were later forbidden in Moses' covenanted law. But as Genesis has shown all along, at this early date close marriages were not particularly dangerous from a genetic point of view, and so were not uncommon. Adam's family married among themselves; and so did Noah's. They really had no choice about it. There just weren't any other people available for spouses at the time.

Close inbreeding was neither a sin nor a problem in those days. But it sure is now. You wouldn't dare engender children with a sister or a brother or a niece nowadays. The risk of birth defects is just too high. It's notable that as longevity decreased, so did the margin of safety in marrying relatives.

†. Gen 11:30 . . Now Sarai was barren, she had no child.

This is the very first recorded incident of a human reproductive malfunction. Other than the reduction in longevity; the human body seems to have been running on all eight cylinders up to this point. But who was the problem; was it Abram or Sarai? It was Sarai because Abraham later engendered a child by one of Sarai's servant girls.

One of the first horrors the human family witnessed was Abel's death. No one had ever seen a human being die before. And now this. A woman who couldn't conceive. It must have been stunning and unbelievable. All the women in history up to this point were cranking out babies like rabbits and mice.

But this was double bad for Sarai. Not only could she not have a family of her own, but you know how the tabloids feed on unusual events. Well . . this was one for the books. Sarai, in her day, was a true freak of nature. Everyone would point at her and whisper in hushed tones: Look! There she is! That's the one we saw on 20/20.

She must have felt terribly inferior, and you can just imagine what that did to her self esteem too. Sarai was a gorgeous piece of work, but her womb had no more life in it than a stack of paper.

I'm a man; so how can I possibly understand Sarai's personal grief? Only another barren woman can understand what Sarai must have felt. There are women who don't care about children. But Sarai doesn't strike me as one of those. And even if she didn't care for children, it would have still been a comfort in her mind to know that at least she could have some if she wanted to.

†. Prv 30:15-16 . .There are three things that are never satisfied, yea, four things say not, It is enough: the grave; and the barren womb; the earth that is not filled with water; and the fire

C.L.I.F.F.
/
 
Upvote 0

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2009
1,141
25
Oregon
✟1,454.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
.
†. Gen 11:31a . .Terah took his son Abram, his grandson Lot the son of Haran, and his daughter-in-law Sarai, the wife of his son Abram, and they set out together from Ur of the Chaldeans for the land of Canaan;

Ur's ruins are approximately midway between the modern city of Baghdad Iraq, and the head of the Persian Gulf, south of the Euphrates River, on the edge of the Al Hajarah Desert. The site of Ur is known today as Tall al Muqayyar. In antiquity, the Euphrates River flowed near the city walls. Controlling this outlet to the sea, Ur was favorably located for the development of commerce and for attaining political dominance.

Ur was the principal center of worship of the Sumerian moon god Nanna, and of his Babylonian equivalent Sin. The massive ziggurat of this deity, one of the best preserved in Iraq, stands about 21 meters (70 ft) above the desert. The biblical name, Ur of the Chaldees, refers to the Chaldeans, who settled in the area after the time of Abraham in about 900 BC.

Ur was one of the first village settlements founded (circa 4000 BC) by the so-called Ubaidian inhabitants of Sumer. Before 2800 BC, Ur became one of the most prosperous Sumerian city-states. According to ancient records, Ur had three dynasties of rulers who, at various times, extended their control over all of Sumer. The founder of the 1st Dynasty of Ur was the conqueror and temple builder Mesanepada (reigned about 2670 BC), the earliest Mesopotamian ruler described in extant contemporary documents. His son Aanepadda (reigned about 2650 BC) built the temple of the goddess Ninhursag, which was excavated in modern times at Tell al-Obeid, about 8 km (5 mi) northeast of the site of Ur. Little is known about the 2nd Dynasty of Ur.

Ur-Nammu (reigned 2113-2095 BC), the first king of the 3rd Dynasty of Ur, who revived the empire of Sumer and Akkad, won control of the outlet to the sea about 2100 BC and made Ur the wealthiest city in Mesopotamia. His reign marked the beginning of the so-called renaissance of Sumerian art and literature at Ur. Ur-Nammu and his son and successor Shulgi (reigned 2095-2047 BC) built the ziggurat of Nanna (about 2100 BC) and magnificent temples at Ur and in other Mesopotamian cities. The descendants of Ur-Nammu continued in power for more than a century, or until shortly before 2000 BC, when the Elamites captured Ibbi-Sin (reigned 2029-2004 BC), king of Ur, and destroyed the city.

Rebuilt shortly thereafter, Ur became part of the kingdom of Isin, later of the kingdom of Larsa, and finally was incorporated into Babylonia. During the period when Babylonia was ruled by the Kassites, Ur remained an important religious center. It was a provincial capital with hereditary governors during the period of Assyrian rule in Babylonia.

After the Chaldean dynasty was established in Babylonia, King Nebuchadnezzar II initiated a new period of building activity at Ur. The last Babylonian king, Nabonidus (reigned 556-539 BC), who appointed his eldest daughter high priestess at Ur, embellished the temples and entirely remodeled the ziggurat of Nanna, making it rival even the temple of Marduk at Babylon. After Babylonia came under the control of Persia, Ur began to decline. By the 4th century BC, the city was practically forgotten, possibly as a result of a shift in the course of the Euphrates River.

The ruins of Ur were found and first excavated (1854-55) by the British consul J. E. Taylor, who partly uncovered the ziggurat of Nanna. The British Museum commenced excavations here (1918-19) and at neighboring Tell al-Obeid under the direction of the British archaeologists Reginald C. Thompson and H. R. H. Hall. These excavations were continued from 1922 to 1934 by a joint expedition of the British Museum and the University Museum of the University of Pennsylvania under the direction of the British archaeologist Sir Leonard Woolley.

In addition to completely excavating the ziggurat, the expedition unearthed the entire temple area at Ur and parts of the residential and commercial quarters of the city. The most spectacular discovery was that of the Royal Cemetery, dating from about 2600 BC and containing art treasures of gold, silver, bronze, and precious stones. The findings left little doubt that the deaths of the king and queen of Ur were followed by the voluntary death of their courtiers and personal attendants and of the court soldiers and musicians.

The city was enclosed by oval walls thirty feet high, which protected not only the city, but two harbors as well. Sir Leonard Woolley discovered that the inhabitants benefited from well-planned streets, and houses with high standards of sanitation. The houses appear to have been constructed to remain cool in the hot summers and some may have been two-storied. House walls adjoined the streets. Homes featured an inner courtyard onto which their rooms faced; just like Judah's home in the Charleton Heston movie: Ben Hur.

Within the city itself were discovered thousands of cuneiform tablets comprising administrative and literary documents dating from about the 27th to the 4th century BC. Among the clay tablets recovered by the archeologists is a Sumerian dictionary and a mathematical text recording cube roots. Also business records, which show that the people of Ur were involved in international business.

C.L.I.F.F.
/
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2009
1,141
25
Oregon
✟1,454.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
.
Makes one wonder why Terah wanted to move. And why to Canaan? Did he all of a sudden get an urge to go into ranching or farming? Maybe. Palestine was indeed a productive land in that day.

According to Gen 12:1, God took an interest in Abraham earlier, while he was in Ur, before he left with Terah to travel to Haran. After sharing his vision with Terah, the dad quite possibly became interested in a new life himself, having recently lost a son. The land where he now lived held bad memories and, probably not wanting to lose touch with any more of his family if Abram were to move away, he suggested that they all travel together; which is a perfectly good idea considering the dangers they were likely to encounter en route. But the dad didn't have the heart for it really. The old gentleman decided to settle in Haran instead of going all the way to Canaan like the original plan called for.

†. Gen 11:31b . . but when they had come as far as Haran, they settled there.

From Ur, Canaan is dead west and just about the same distance as Haran. But instead of going directly to Canaan, they went north, following the trade routes. I think I would have too. Terah's family was a lot safer going from town to town along the trade routes. It would take longer to get to Canaan, but they would be in better shape upon arrival. There are some who like to keep their foot on the gas and push on through when they travel. But that is very tiring. It is far better to stop often, eat, and rest before moving on. The towns along the trade route could provide them with needed supplies for the journey too.

But Haran (modern Charran or Haraan) is too far out of the way really. It's clear up in Urfa Turkey on the trade route to Ninevah. Terah could have turned south a lot sooner and gone on down to Canaan via Damascus. But I think that by then, he'd lost interest in Canaan and decided that Haran was the place for him. And Abram, probably not wanting to leave his dad there alone, stayed too.

†. Gen 11:32 . .The days of Terah came to 205 years; and Terah died in Haran.

Terah lived a relatively long life for his day. His son Abraham only lived to 175. But I sometimes wonder if Terah didn't cut his life short by staying in Haran. Did he forget about God's call to Abram to go to Canaan? Actually, Terah didn't worship Noah's god, but other ones; pagan ones. So it's only natural that he wouldn't take Yhvh's call seriously. God wanted Abram to live down in Canaan. But because of Terah, he didn't go there. How sad that parents can actually be a hinderance to their children serving God whole heartedly.

My own dad was a very bad influence upon my spiritual life. It wasn't until after I moved out, and he died, that my relationship with God really took off and went somewhere. He used to get so upset with me for taking the Bible too seriously; even blaming it for keeping me from getting ahead in life. And he constantly pressured me to marry women who were of a different religion than my own.

Kin can be the ruin of an otherwise Godly person. The influence of unholy kin should never be taken lightly. The Law of God can be very intolerant, and extremely harsh, in some cases.

†. Deut 13:7-12 . . If your brother, your own mother’s son, or your son or daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your closest friend entices you in secret, saying: Come let us worship other gods— whom neither you nor your fathers have experienced —from among the gods of the peoples around you, either near to you or distant, anywhere from one end of the earth to the other: do not assent or give heed to him.

. . Show him no pity or compassion, and do not shield him; but take his life. Let your hand be the first against him to put him to death, and the hand of the rest of the people thereafter. Stone him to death, for he sought to make you stray from Yhvh your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thus all Israel will hear and be afraid, and such evil things will not be done again in your midst.

C.L.I.F.F.
/
 
Upvote 0

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2009
1,141
25
Oregon
✟1,454.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
.
†. Gen 12:1. .The Lord said to Abram: Go forth from your native land and from your father's house to the land that I will show you.

Stephen said Abram was still living in Ur, and hadn't moved up to Haran yet when God called him to leave his kin (Acts 7:2-3). There's no record of any interaction with God all the while that Abram lived in Haran. Yhvh was silent, and waiting for Abraham to get with the program and do as He said— leave his kin and head on out to a country of God's choosing. When he finally departed, Abram was not yet informed of his precise destination. (Heb 11:8)

The Lord made several promises to Abram at this time which have all literally come true.

†. Gen 12:2a . . I will make of you a great nation,

Greatness is arbitrary. Some say numbers best represent greatness, while others feel that accomplishments and contributions define greatness. In the second area, no other nation on earth has contributed more to the benefit of mankind than the people of Israel. It is through them that sinful men of all nations may obtain a full ransom from the wrath of God. Israel is also destined to become the seat of world power, economic prosperity, and the center for religious studies.

†. Gen 12:2b . . And I will bless you;

Abram became a very wealthy man; with enough male servants to field a respectable army.

†. Gen 12:2c . . I will make your name great,

Nobody is more famous than Abraham. Even people who never heard of George Washington, Alexander the Great, Napoleon, or Genghis Khan, know about Abraham. He is connected to the three most prominent religions in the world: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. And his name is always held in the very highest regard. Abraham isn't known for nefarious deeds nor bloody conquests. He is known as the friend of God, and as a role model for all decent God-fearing people everywhere all over the world.

†. Gen 12:2d . . And you shall be a blessing.

There are some people that the world is well rid of like: conceited entertainers, neighbors from hell, thin skinned defensive people with raging tempers, habitual liars, cry babies, people who falsify information, ruthless businessmen, con and scam artists, unscrupulous lawyers, crooked cops and dishonest politicians, insurance frauds, managers on a power trip, hackers, and the like. But Abraham was none of those. He was a very gracious, honorable man; the kind of guy you would thank God for. But most of all, Abraham is the progenitor of Messiah— the savior of the world.

†. Mtt 1:1 . . A record of the genealogy of Jesus Christ the son of David, the son of Abraham:

Messiah is the one who makes it possible for sinners to escape the judgment of God. You can't be a better blessing than that.

†. John 3:14-17 . . Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. For God so cared for the world that he donated His one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

*NOTE: The reference to Moses' metallic serpent is at Num 21:5-9

Just as Moses' people were spared certain death from snake bite by doing no more nor less than looking to the metallic serpent; so believers today are spared eternal suffering by doing no more nor less than looking to Jesus' crucifixion.

C.L.I.F.F.
/
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2009
1,141
25
Oregon
✟1,454.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
.
†. Gen 12:3a . . I will bless those who bless you

It's a good investment to always do right by a Hebrew. Some of them are not easy to love, that's true; but never forget God's promise to Abram: "I will bless those who bless you."

†. Mtt 25:31-40 . .When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

. .Then the King will say to those on his right: Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.

. .Then the righteous will answer him: Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you? The King will reply: I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.

†. Gen 12:3b . . And curse him that curses you;

It is a very serious matter to mistreat Abraham's posterity.

†. Mtt 25:41-46 . .Then he will say to those on his left: Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.

. .They also will answer: Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you? He will reply: I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me. Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.

It's beyond belief, but many of the German soldiers in the second world war were Christians who attended church on Sunday, sang the lovely hymns and partook the Eucharist; then during the week, impaled newborn Jewish infants— thrown out of hospital windows —in midair on their bayonets. Nazi Germany, though a "Christian" nation, was just as atheistic in its political practices as communist Russia.

†. Gen 12:3c . . And all the families of the earth shall bless themselves by you.

Now we see coming into play the most important part of God's plan for Abram. At the moment God made that promise, every other family on the earth was just about totally involved in God-less religions. Even Terah, Abram's dad, had sunk into them. Individual members of Shem's clan were apparently the only ones who stayed in touch with the god of the Flood; and because of that, they had a great future ahead. But the other clans did not. They had no future at all; just to live out their meaningless lives and die like an animal dies —to die like human wildlife.

Through Abram, God perpetuated the knowledge of the True God. Peoples of every language, and every ethnic, have benefited from Abram's association with the Bible's God. Aren't you grateful to God for Moses, for Isaiah, for David, for Solomon, for Esther, for Gideon, for Samson, for Ezra, and for the cross of Jesus of Nazareth? Yes. Abram's family has made all the difference for many millions of us.

C.L.I.F.F.
/
 
Upvote 0