Cryogenics and the soul

Are those who have been cryogenically frozen "dead" as far as the soul is concerned?

Yes!

Bah, you're Anglican too?

I would think if your heart is not beating you would be dead.

Current cryogenic techniques are not adequate enough to freeze persons and realistically think that these people can be brought back to life sometime in the future. Most, if not all, of those cells will be damaged to the point of no return. Anyone, to this point, who has been cryogenically frozen (which always afaik has occured after death anyways) is dead and will remain dead.

Shekinahs said:

I would think if your heart is not beating you would be dead.

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Actually I believe death is measured by lacking brain activity not heart rate.

Fascinating question tho... if the body contains a soul and if that soul is required for life, then if there is even the slightest possibility of revival must that soul be bound to that body?

Scientifically... they're all dead. Too much damage to tissue. But it's a good question to ponder.

Shekinahs said:

I would think if your heart is not beating you would be dead.

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Ever heard of open heart operations? Many people have their hearts stopped for hours and yet can live. Mainly in part due to blood pumping devices.

Yet, many 3rd world contries will perform the same operation by chilling the body with packed ice to cause the heart to slow or stop then they will operate.

As for a person being cryo frozen... Their has been limited success with freezeing rodents for about a days period and then having a complete revival.

But then agian where is our soul stored and can we lose it when we are frozen? I dont know. But if I had to pick one, I would say the soul lives on.

Phred said:

Fascinating question tho... if the body contains a soul and if that soul is required for life, then if there is even the slightest possibility of revival must that soul be bound to that body?

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I suppose it would depend on how the soul is bound to the body. Some theology tells us that all biological systems are bound to a spiritual existence of some kind...and this linkage has something to do with the difference between a live cell and the inanimate pile of chemicals that make up that cell. IOW, the spiritual element, on some level, has something to do with the animation of living things.

When you think about it, evolution tells us that life itself is really the tale of a singular kind of existence...living cells with a common origin copying themselves and reproducing through history. If you look at history you can construct a kind of evolutionary 'tree of life' (and the bible uses a similar analogy for spiritual life: the tree of life in eden). The spiritual element is intrinsically linked to the biological element. Death represents the separation of these elements. IOW, spiritual existence makes (even a single cell) live.

What about a frozen cell? Well, we can certainly freeze single cells. And when they are thawed they live...and so they are still bound to a spiritual existence (according to some interpretations). Of course, no one can say how that spiritual exitence experiences time when the biological components are 'frozen'. Perhaps it does not experience time at all.

Phred said:

Scientifically... they're all dead. Too much damage to tissue. But it's a good question to ponder.

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The trick is to avoid the formation of ice crystals, which are toxic to the cells. Using liquid nitrogen, we can get vitrification of the water (no crystals)...but the freezing has to be quite rapid...not possible for dense organ tissue.

Roman Soldier said:

Are those who have been cryogenically frozen "dead" as far as the soul is concerned?

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I guess if you were frozen while still alive your soul would still be in your body. You'd just be sleeping for a LOOOOOOOOONG time.

Mike Flynn said:

The trick is to avoid the formation of ice crystals, which are toxic to the cells. Using liquid nitrogen, we can get vitrification of the water (no crystals)...but the freezing has to be quite rapid...not possible for dense organ tissue.

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I read an article on this a few weeks ago. Right now there is a way to freeze people fast enough to prevent ice crystals from forming--the problem is that nobody has yet invented a way to THAW people fast enough to allow them to recover. At the moment, there's a facility that has cryogenically frozen a few terminally ill people in hope that someone will one day invent a way to thaw them and cure them. Perhaps there never will be, but it's the only chance these people have of recovering from their illnesses.

Of course, if you think being cryogenically frozen traps your soul in your body, then it might be preferable to just go ahead and die rather than remaining frozen for some unspecified amount of time. But since I don't believe that our souls are effected by our physical bodies, if they exist, I might consider getting myself frozen if my OCD ends up going back to taking 24 hours a day.