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ChavaK

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Shemot 7:9-15

In the text, verses 9-12 the Hebrew word is not "serpent"נָחָשׁ but "crocodile" תַנִּין. In verse 15 it reverts back to "serpent" נָחָשׁ.
Why do you suppose the Hebrew word crocodile used, why is it translated into English as serpent, and why does the Hebrew change back to serpent in vs 15?
 
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A

aniello

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Interesting. I don't know. What do our revered sages say, please.
 
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Desert Rose

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while revered sages are on coffee break, i will chip in.
the word tannin its the name of some kind of sea creature, like in Bereisht 1 21 :
ויברא אלהים את התנינים הגדולים
"God created big fishes"

Sometimes we see that tannin has somewhat snaketype features like in Shmot 7 9
however thats not the snake that seduced Eve and her nogoodnick husband, thats nahash נחש

Common features of biblical word "tannin" is 1) big 2) lives in the waters 3) snakelike body. Sort of like Loch Ness Monster

Its the word that is also known in other semitic languages, syrian, arabic, etc. also translated as dragon, or big snake

In one place in Jezekeel 29 3 its used as
התנים הגדול הרובץ בתוך יאוריו
as "crocodile" .. that lies in his waters( Nile)
 
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ChavaK

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Its the word that is also known in other semitic languages, syrian, arabic, etc. also translated as dragon, or big snake
I've also heard it translated as dragon.
Still, why tanin in a couple of verses and nachash in the other?
 
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Desert Rose

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To add - yes, in modern hebrew its crocodile but looks like its was not only that( or not quite that) back in biblical times.

Interesting contemplation/study would be to compare it with "leviathan" and to seek if the roots of the words are somewhat related linguistically....

Ancient hebrew word for jackal, or wild prarie dog/wolf type of creature is תן tan(plural תנים tannim) Supposedly unrelated, but maybe Yonah knows more....
 
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Lulav

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I don't think it changes back. Since serpents weren't mentioned before this, I take what he said in 15 to mean this, from chapter 4

ב וַיֹּאמֶר אֵלָיו יְהוָה, מזה (מַה-זֶּ&#1492 בְיָדֶךָ; וַיֹּאמֶר, מַטֶּה. 2
And the LORD said unto him: 'What is that in thy hand?' And he said: 'A rod.'
ג וַיֹּאמֶר הַשְׁלִיכֵהוּ אַרְצָה, וַיַּשְׁלִכֵהוּ אַרְצָה וַיְהִי לְנָחָשׁ; וַיָּנָס מֹשֶׁה, מִפָּנָיו. 3
And He said: 'Cast it on the ground.' And he cast it on the ground, and it became a serpent; and Moses fled from before it.

The rod that G-d said to cast down in chapter 7, was Aarons rod. The rod that G-ds tells Moses to strike the Nile with is Moses rod, the one he used in Chapter 4.

7:14 And the LORD said unto Moses: 'Pharaoh's heart is stubborn, he refuseth to let the people go. . 15 Get thee unto Pharaoh in the morning; lo, he goeth out unto the water; and thou shalt stand by the river's brink to meet him; and the rod which was turned to a serpent shalt thou take in thy hand.

טו לֵךְ אֶל-פַּרְעֹה בַּבֹּקֶר, הִנֵּה יֹצֵא הַמַּיְמָה, וְנִצַּבְתָּ לִקְרָאתוֹ, עַל-שְׂפַת הַיְאֹר; וְהַמַּטֶּה אֲשֶׁר-נֶהְפַּךְ לְנָחָשׁ, תִּקַּח בְּיָדֶךָ
 
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Desert Rose

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I've also heard it translated as dragon.
Still, why tanin in a couple of verses and nachash in the other?

have no idea, Chava, maybe its just like snake/serpent difference?

always thought that nachash , from lenachesh- to "guess" ) meant a smarter, trickier snake that's promoted to fancier "serpent"? But why they change it could be nothing special, maybe even sloppiness of the writers?
Ancient language is a ball of mystery....
 
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ChavaK

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From a Jewish site I found:

And a Christian site:

Dr. Claude Mariottini - Professor of Old Testament: Moses and His Crocodile Christian perspective
 
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Desert Rose

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My explanation was a lot shorter and I didn't get it anywhere online.
Thats why you wouldnt make a good politician or member of clergy, or get a tenure in academia , Lulav. You need to learn to make longer speeches!

on friday night
I just saw that its only thursday. You couldnt break it to me gently, you damn calendar
 
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Lulav

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Thats why you wouldnt make a good politician or member of clergy, or get a tenure in academia , Lulav. You need to learn to make longer speeches!

Oh, I usually can, right now I am under the weather, and even typing hurts.
 
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Henaynei

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Could be as simple as... "crocodile" was the specific and "snake" also be translated as the general "reptile" ?
Like saying "Go get the cows (specific), get those mammals (general) in the barn."
 
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yonah_mishael

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Could be as simple as... "crocodile" was the specific and "snake" also be translated as the general "reptile" ?
Like saying "Go get the cows (specific), get those mammals (general) in the barn."

I think that it's the opposite – that tannin is used more generically in the Bible. In some contexts, it's a giant sea creature. In others, it's a dragon. In yet others it's some kind of snake, specifically a venomous snake.
 
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Yahudim

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I think that it's the opposite – that tannin is used more generically in the Bible. In some contexts, it's a giant sea creature. In others, it's a dragon. In yet others it's some kind of snake, specifically a venomous snake.
I see it the same way. Leviathan is interesting if interpreted as 'joined to the serpent'. So I wonder if there isn't a reference to spiritual beings going on here? Ezekiel seemed to think so...

Trying to get a handle on nahash in this context.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I think that it's the opposite – that tannin is used more generically in the Bible. In some contexts, it's a giant sea creature. In others, it's a dragon. In yet others it's some kind of snake, specifically a venomous snake.
To me the head of a dragon is similar to a hear of a serpent.
The NT book of Revelation mentions a rather nasty dragon in it [click on my camera icon ehehe]

Ezekiel 29:3 "Speak thou! and say 'thus He says my Lord YAHWEY. Behold Me! on thee Par`oh king of Egypt, the great Dragon the one reclining in midst of his rivers which he says to Me ' my River and I, I made me'.

Revelation 12:3 And was seen another Sign in the heaven, and behold! A great fiery red Dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems upon his head

http://www.christianforums.com/t7557261-4/#post57419879
There Be Dragons !

Dragonslayer trailer - YouTube
 
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