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Of course he is free to say what he
wants.
As a statement of faith, he is no match
for Job, but, not bad. The cognitive
dissonance alone must have been
wrenching.
But it gets him an F for integrity.
No, its not unreasonable, I used to think along those lines myself. But, eventually my light led me in a different direction.Many of them think that God set up things and evolution was how it happened. It is not unreasonable.
I understood. That's why I said "I do reconcile it beyond the simple statement..."You did not understand the question. He was asking which parts of the Bible that you interpret literally and which parts do you use some other approach. Clearly Jesus is not a sheep, you seem to agree with that. Interpreting the verse given literally would make Jesus a sheep.
I chose to answer what I thought was the most important part of his comment. Inappropriate is your opinion.That was not what he asked and your answer was an inappropriate dodge.
Oh my, no "opinion" just observation.No, its not unreasonable, I used to think along those lines myself. But, eventually my light led me in a different direction.
I understood. That's why I said "I do reconcile it beyond the simple statement..."
I chose to answer what I thought was the most important part of his comment. Inappropriate is your opinion.
I think Estrid is too harsh here. Scientists are entitled to have a religious faith, and some do.
It must be tricky for Dr Wise to maintain a Young Earth Creation standpoint with her rigorous scientific training.
It sure is.
This is why I can't understand how Christians reconcile evolution with creation.
I do reconcile it beyond the simple statement... Jesus is the 'Lamb of God,' who paid the price for all sinners, and for me that is the truth.
What I can tell you, without sounding too sanctimonious, is sincerely pray and ask for forgiveness and guidance. If you do this, I believe in my heart you will see things in His light for you, whatever it is.
What stumps me the most is more basic than that. I have no idea how to bridge the gap between the need to cling to a very ancient middle-eastern creation story and the creation story that science has opened up to us today. Even if the Evolutionary details are understood by Creationist, they still go back to those ancient creation stories for understanding.What stumps me the most is how to bridge the gap between understandings of the subject matter in question.
What stumps me the most is more basic than that. I have no idea how to bridge the gap between the need to cling to a very ancient middle-eastern creation story and the creation story that science has opened up to us today. Even if the Evolutionary details are understood by Creationist, they still go back to those ancient creation stories for understanding.
I think one thing that attracts scientists and the scientifically inclined towards science is the sense of wonder. There is so much incredible in the universe; the awesome energies of a supernova as it spews out the newly formed atoms that may one day form part of a new solar system, or even a life form; the slow grinding of tectonic plates as they collide, contrasted with the massive pile of Olympus Mons, formed on a planet devoid of plate tectonics; the industry of worker ants; the interaction of Hadley Cells and the jet stream. The list is endless, the excitement and the delight at new discoveries ongoing.What stumps me the most is more basic than that. I have no idea how to bridge the gap between the need to cling to a very ancient middle-eastern creation story and the creation story that science has opened up to us today. Even if the Evolutionary details are understood by Creationist, they still go back to those ancient creation stories for understanding.
Well said. When you utilize the ability to wonder about such things, even just considering in awe something you do not understand and being able to explain your feelings about it, that to me is evidence of a Creator. Also, being able to take that further (study, education, scientific method, etc.) and explain, or try to explain, how many things work in the physical world is testimony to the unique abilities man has been given, and to me further evidence of a Creator. We have what many consider just an ‘ancient middle-eastern creation story,’’ while to others it provides the best answer to the how (God did it) and why (He chose to) we’ll never understand. 9,999,999 years from now, despite changes and advancements we can’t even imagine, man will still die without knowing anything more. And, I believe that somewhere in an equivalent quiet, dimly-lit hospital room and on an equivalent nightstand by an equivalent bed… there will still be a Bible for those who can and choose to reach for it.I think one thing that attracts scientists and the scientifically inclined towards science is the sense of wonder. There is so much incredible in the universe; the awesome energies of a supernova as it spews out the newly formed atoms that may one day form part of a new solar system, or even a life form; the slow grinding of tectonic plates as they collide, contrasted with the massive pile of Olympus Mons, formed on a planet devoid of plate tectonics; the industry of worker ants; the interaction of Hadley Cells and the jet stream. The list is endless, the excitement and the delight at new discoveries ongoing.
I suspect that it is the same suite of emotions that are triggered when Creationists consider Scripture and the thoughts that come to them in quiet moments of prayer. To the Creationist these things are as solid and convincing, more solid and convincing than the stumbling efforts of some misguided scientists who are, after all, only human.
So, I think how I can grasp why some believe so firmly, because that belief is powered by the sense of wonder. Perhaps they are just not wondering enough.
But how many of those who reach for it and are comforted by it will take the first two chapters as !00% accurate literal history? I think your smugness is premature.Well said. When you utilize the ability to wonder about such things, even just considering in awe something you do not understand and being able to explain your feelings about it, that to me is evidence of a Creator. Also, being able to take that further (study, education, scientific method, etc.) and explain, or try to explain, how many things work in the physical world is testimony to the unique abilities man has been given, and to me further evidence of a Creator. We have what many consider just an ‘ancient middle-eastern creation story,’’ while to others it provides the best answer to the how (God did it) and why (He chose to) we’ll never understand. 9,999,999 years from now, despite changes and advancements we can’t even imagine, man will still die without knowing anything more. And, I believe that somewhere in an equivalent quiet, dimly-lit hospital room and on an equivalent nightstand by an equivalent bed… there will still be a Bible for those who can and choose to reach for it.
It’s hard to explain, but for me the power of the Bible lies in its overall message. There can be a lot of difficulties when you start breaking down every word thinking you can speak for God and say this is exactly what He means. That is vanity. To me there is nothing at all wrong with scientific pursuit (part of my education and career was in a science field), until it also becomes vanity and takes God out of the picture.I think the problem lies in the dogma that the Bible is the direct word of God. If you are instructed that it is sinful to challenge the Bible's authority it must take some courage to go take a scientific view of - well almost anything.
A change of species not a finch into another finch with a different beak like darwen described I mean like a fish into a frog
Or a mammal into a reptile
It’s hard to explain, but for me the power of the Bible lies in its overall message. There can be a lot of difficulties when you start breaking down every word thinking you can speak for God and say this is exactly what He means. That is vanity. To me there is nothing at all wrong with scientific pursuit (part of my education and career was in a science field), until it also becomes vanity and takes God out of the picture.
I'm not surprised.The Bible does not bear much rational scrutiny. I do not think it was meant to.
I didn't pit the Bible and rationale; you're doing that. I said when you remove God from the picture.When rational thought clashes with scripture why do you call rational conclusions 'vanity'?
We have what many consider just an ‘ancient middle-eastern creation story,’’ while to others it provides the best answer to the how (God did it) and why (He chose to) we’ll never understand.
True, not in a technical sense, but for some, yes it does... 'God did it' is all the 'how' they need."God did it" doesn't really answer how, though. Genesis might provide a "who", but it doesn't provide a "how".
There is no vanity in neutral scientific explanations.This is the problem, isn't it? Scientific explanations do not make the assumptions of a creator god and manage to make a good fist of describing evolution. Creationist theology will not permit such explanation, leading to its dismissal as 'vanity'.
Sure, I agree. I was just explaining some's rationale. To me, vanity comes when you think you are speaking for God, or when you deny His involvement (which you know nothing of).Asking about the creation or evolution and being told it was done by God and further enquiry is not allowed is deeply unsatisfactory. It amounts to a denial of human intellect.
How can creation be explicable without a Creator?I maintain that the creation and evolution are explicable without reference to a creator. The probing of these are part of human endeavour, not to prohibited in such a way.
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