COVENANTALLY SPEAKING/THINKING

BABerean2 said:

The contrast between the two covenants is found below.

Therefore, they cannot be one and the same covenant.


2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?
(Why does Paul contrast "the ministry of death", with the New Covenant, if they are one and the same?)


Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
(Why does the author of Hebrews say there is a first and a second covenant, if they are one and the same?)



Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
(Is this Mount Sinai?)

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
(Why are we told above that we are not come to Mount Sinai, but to Mount Sion instead, if they are one and the same covenant?)


We know what men have said in their man-made confessions, but what does the Bible say?

Can you show the term "new covenant" in the Westminster Confession of Faith, or the 1689 LBCF?
It is found below in the Bible.


Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

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The contrast between the two covenants is found below.
Therefore, they cannot be one and the same covenant.

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Who ever said they were?

Paul and the writer to the Hebrews certainly didn't. Paul was at pains to point out that the New Covenant is based upon the Covenant with Abraham, not the additions to it in the amendment, adjunct and subordinate clauses intended to educate mankind 'because of transgressions', under Moses. Rom.4:15, 1 Jn.3:4, Gal.3:19, Heb.9:15. Notice in particular Heb.9:15.

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15 For this reason he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, because a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions under the first covenant."

Paul was making it plain that the law brought liberty only if it was obeyed in all respects, and we have ALL transgressed, whereas The Covenant with Abraham, which came 430 years earlier, does not rest on The Law, it rests upon 'faith', so there is no reason for it to be 'abolished', so it isn't.

Quite the contrary, it IS the covenant upon which our salvation has always rested and is spelled out in the terms of The New Covenant, which is 'a better covenant, on better promises' because it does not make us slaves to the law of Moses, but gives those who believe, freedom in The Holy Spirit.
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ExTiff said:

Who ever said they were?

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Many of those promoting Reformed Covenant Theology claim the New Covenant is a "New Administration" of the Old Covenant.

When they refer to "God's Law" they are referring to the ten commandments, including the 4th commandment.

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BABerean2 said:

Many of those promoting Reformed Covenant Theology claim the New Covenant is a "New Administration" of the Old Covenant.

When they refer to "God's Law" they are referring to the ten commandments, including the 4th commandment.

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The New Covenant is of necessity an extension and continuation of the Covenant of Abraham, but the Mosaic covenant of the law has been fulfilled for those of us that believe, and is therefore superceeded by obedience to Christ our Lord and Saviour, who is 'Lord of the Sabbath'. Our reverence for the sabbath is as His was. We do good on the sabbath, as He did, we are not slaves to the sabbath, the principle of 'a sabbath' sometime in every week, was made for us, not us for it. We are friends of the Lord, who decides for us which day is our sabbath rest. He and no one else.
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ExTiff said:

The New Covenant is of necessity an extension and continuation of the Covenant of Abraham, but the Mosaic covenant of the law has been fulfilled for those of us that believe, and is therefore superceeded by obedience to Christ our Lord and Saviour, who is 'Lord of the Sabbath'. Our reverence for the sabbath is as His was. We do good on the sabbath, as He did, we are not slaves to the sabbath, the principle of 'a sabbath' sometime in every week, was made for us, not us for it. We are friends of the Lord, who decides for us which day is our sabbath rest. He and no one else.
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Based on what you have said above, you are on the right track, and are not promoting "Reformed Covenant Theology".

You are not in agreement with the man-made doctrine found in the Westminster Confession of Faith.

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BABerean2 said:

Based on what you have said above, you are on the right track, and are not promoting "Reformed Covenant Theology".

You are not in agreement with the man-made doctrine found in the Westminster Confession of Faith.

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If you want to see it that way. I prefer to think you misinterpret and fail to understand the Westminster Confession and the 39 Articles of faith.
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BABerean2 said:

This new fangled fashion for terming a 'theology' (New Covenant Theology), is merely a promotioal vehicle for denominationally partizan 'Baptist Theology' in disguise.

Covenant theology must be Apostolic theology, or it is not truly Covenant theology. The only theology concerning covenants, either old or new, has to necessarily be Apostolic in its reasoning and Denominational Baptist theology is not.
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I don't think anyone here is promoting New Covenant Theology as taught and held by Calvinistic Baptist preachers such as John Piper.

ExTiff said:

If you want to see it that way. I prefer to think you misinterpret and fail to understand the Westminster Confession and the 39 Articles of faith.
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Pastor John G. Reisinger reveals the problems with both Dispensational and Reformed Covenant Theology in the audio message below.
It is a good one to listen to while you are in the car, on a trip.

It is a little long, but is well worth it.

Pastor Reisinger is author of the book "Abraham's Four Seeds", which also reveals the problems with the above man-made systems of Bible interpretation.


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