Contempt For Ordinary Voters Undermines Opposition To Trump

Vambram

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The author then gives a few paragraphs with that historical background. Allow me to go deeper into the article for some of it's conclusions.
 

Bradskii

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From the article: As a citizen in a representative democracy, I expect our political leaders, including Donald Trump, to be held up to public scrutiny and questioned, even investigated, when the facts warrant it.
Something of a ho-hum opinion piece. Nothing unusual in seeing the same sort of material from The Federalist. But the above comment caught my eye. Maybe irony is a concept foreign to the author.
 
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Vambram

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Maybe irony is a concept foreign to the author.
There is not any irony. The part you quoted included, "When the facts warrant it."

However, I do have to wonder what your thoughts are on the rest of that long opinion piece article?
 
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Bradskii

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There is not any irony. The part you quoted included, "When the facts warrant it."

However, I do have to wonder what your thoughts are on the rest of that long opinion piece article?
My opinion is that it's a long opinion piece. Heavy on...opinion. And It seems that if people keep telling lies then somehow it becomes the truth. From the article:

'Two dramatic examples of this political disconnect with average citizens are the refusal of urban governments to prosecute violent criminals, which has caused a surge in crime...'

From here: What the data says about crime in the U.S.

'Americans tend to believe crime is up, even when official data shows it is down.

In 23 of 27 Gallup surveys conducted since 1993, at least 60% of U.S. adults have said there is more crime nationally than there was the year before, despite the downward trend in crime rates during most of that period.

The FBI data also shows a 59% reduction in the U.S. property crime rate between 1993 and 2022, with big declines in the rates of burglary (-75%), larceny/theft (-54%) and motor vehicle theft (-53%).

Using the BJS statistics, the declines in the violent and property crime rates are even steeper than those captured in the FBI data. Per BJS, the U.S. violent and property crime rates each fell 71% between 1993 and 2022.

While perceptions of rising crime at the national level are common, fewer Americans believe crime is up in their own communities. In every Gallup crime survey since the 1990s, Americans have been much less likely to say crime is up in their area than to say the same about crime nationally.'

The question now becomes, are the people who write these articles really unaware that crime is dropping? Or are they just lying to you? But hey, why let the facts interrupt the rantin' and ravin' anyway. Just carry on regardless.
 
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Vambram

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If official government stats about crime say one thing, but a majority of people living in the big cities say the opposite, then I am going to believe the people.
 
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Bradskii

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If official government stats about crime say one thing, but a majority of people living in the big cities say the opposite, then I am going to believe the people.
I just showed you that they aren't aware of what's actually happening. It's a perception, caused by people like those in The Federalist who know you won't check the figures to see if what they say is right.

And as I again just pointed out, citizens don't think crime has increased in their own area. But they do think it has nationally. So It's not like they see more crime as otherwise they'd report more crime. They aren't. And they have no idea what's happening elsewhere unless they either check the figures of they read rags like The Federalist who lie to them.

So where do you get your data from? Throw in a couple of links so we can see. Will it be hard data like that from Pew? Or more 'opinion pieces'.
 
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Pommer

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If official government stats about crime say one thing, but a majority of people living in the big cities say the opposite, then I am going to believe the people.
…and where do these folks keep their statistics?
 
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Matt5

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Does something live at Fantasyland, Disney?

Why bother reporting a crime if the police aren't going to do anything about it, or a prosecutor is just going to quickly release the perpetrator? Even the police don't want to bother with many criminals because they're just wasting their time due to quick release policies.

How many stores have closed down due to shoplifting? In California, theft under $1,000 is no longer a felony. Nobody bothers these people. And then the stores just close.

[20-April-2024] Santa Monica Has Fallen | FULL Tour of The Crisis - YouTube
 
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KCfromNC

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If official government stats about crime say one thing, but a majority of people living in the big cities say the opposite, then I am going to believe the people.
Do you also believe what a majority of voters in big cities say about which party should represent Americans in government? Or is this believing city dwellers' opinions selective?
 
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KCfromNC

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Weird that a post would present random right wing talking points as if anyone would think they were more convincing that actual data. Seems like a waste of everyone's time.
 
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Bradskii

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Hang on. I just asked where the data comes from for increased crime. And you link to a Youtube video by some credit company/self employed real estate dude?

Impressive!
 
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rambot

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If official government stats about crime say one thing, but a majority of people living in the big cities say the opposite, then I am going to believe the people.
Funny that people are willing to believe that news and media hypes negative fear based stories but when you give an example of them doing it they proudly say they swallow it.
 
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Desk trauma

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Contempt for the majority of the voters, those other than real Americans who live in cities, is a cornerstone of MAGA nonsense.
 
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iluvatar5150

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Contempt for the majority of the voters, those other than real Americans who live in cities, is a cornerstone of MAGA nonsense.
Seriously, it’s hard to imagine something more contemptuous of a voter than treating them as if they don’t have a right to engage in the electoral process.

OP describes legitimate policy differences, some of which are supported by a large number of people, while MAGA’s OTOH have spent years describing certain opponents as not eligible or worthy to serve in office merely because of their ethnicity, tried to explain away the legitimacy of an election by virtue of losing to large numbers of urbanites, and then tried to steal an election.

MAGA is fueled by contempt, but is so weak that it can’t endure a bit of disagreement.
 
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Vambram

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It truly does appear to me that liberals live in opposite land based upon the posts in this forum as well as basing my opinion on what liberals in mainstream media and Democratic Party leadership says.
 
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Vambram

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Do you also believe what a majority of voters in big cities say about which party should represent Americans in government? Or is this believing city dwellers' opinions selective?
Watch and see how they vote in November.
 
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Hazelelponi

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I was about to create a thread on shoplifting. Guy in New York makes videos and talks about these issues he made one today. (I'll share at bottom of post for you).

Reported retail theft in the US was 112 billion in 2023.

Source: NY governor slammed for rejecting retail crime task force while store owners lose billions to theft

In New York alone it was 4.4 or 4.8 billion but we see in the above article Hochul rejected a bill in November of 2023 to create a organized retail crime task force that was passed in their house.

Now apparently the criminals are stealing from the stores in NY and then setting up open air flea markets selling the products they just stole - right in front of the very shops they are stealing from... It's crazy!

 
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iluvatar5150

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It truly does appear to me that liberals live in opposite land based upon the posts in this forum as well as basing my opinion on what liberals in mainstream media and Democratic Party leadership says.
We do live in opposite land - opposite, that is, of the propaganda-driven fantasy that seems to dominate the imaginations of so many conservatives.
 
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Hans Blaster

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If official government stats about crime say one thing, but a majority of people living in the big cities say the opposite, then I am going to believe the people.
That's not how facts or statistics work. "Feelings" are not facts.
 
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Hans Blaster

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This opinion piece starts with a couple falsehoods

"Two dramatic examples of this political disconnect with average citizens are the refusal of urban governments to prosecute violent criminals, which has caused a surge in crime, and the White House’s tolerance of mass immigration, which threatens jobs, security, and the rule of law."

And then wanders on for paragraphs about mostly how intellectual elites aren't interested in the unread common man.

When you write a paragraph or so about Diderot you just might be on the wrong track about modern American politicians. (I agree with Diderot on priests and princes, but I shall not repeat the quote.)
 
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