Confused

MichaelBurk · Nov 26, 2012

I got up in the middle of the night last night and put the T.V. on. They were re-airing the Mike Huckabe show, and some guy was talking about Divine Alignments.

I think it was the same guy who wrote a book called "When God Winks," and I'd like to know how many of you believe there's no such thing as coincidences.

When I went to our local Walmart on black Friday, I ran into two sets of Mormons I know.

A couple of months ago, when my dad was in the hospital, I talked to several Nigerian nurses who were 7th day Adventist, and after he was discharged from the hospital I noticed several copies of a book by Ellen G. White (called "The Great Controversy") in the free literature rack at Wawa.

I picked one up, but I left it in the van and never read it until I found the same book in our mail box a few weeks latter (not mailed, just in my mailbox.)

I sometimes leave the van open, and I thought someone (for some reason) might have taken the book out of the van and put it in the mail box as some kind of joke, but when I checked, I found I had two of them (and these books don't seem to be free, they have a retail price of $11.95 printed onthe back covers.)

So are there coincidences, or is God trying to tell me something?

When I turned on the T.V. last night, was God telling me there's no such thing as coincidences?

Was He telling me to listen to the Mormon missionaries (and convert, and be baptized a Mormon) when I ran into those two sets of Mormons the other day?

Was He telling me to join the 7th day Adventists the other month?

Is God really in control of everything?

Does everything really have a reason?

I'm very confused here (and would very much appreciate any thoughts.)

Albion · Nov 26, 2012

Those two churches are very active and leave their literature all over the place. There is nothing special about what you encountered. I, in fact, just threw away a copy of Ellen White's book the other day when I was clearing out some papers in my office. Then I went upstairs and found another one in a drawer. Was God calling me to the SDA? Well, no, I just had several of these around from times I was handed a copy at some fair booth or on a streetcorner.

Cappadocious · Nov 26, 2012

God's hand is in everything. But we cannot know what a given occurrence is part of in the economy of God. We know, however, that we are not to harlot after signs and omens. A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign.

God sends us trials, not dowsing rods.

Cappadocious · Nov 26, 2012

And the great controversy is a load of pseudohistorical speculation.

Albion · Nov 26, 2012

Cappadocious said:
And the great controversy is a load of pseudohistorical speculation.

Maybe, but it looks to me mainly like a purloined Western Civilization textbook.

Cappadocious · Nov 26, 2012

Albion said:
Maybe, but it looks to me mainly like a purloined Western Civilization textbook.

the myth of the Sabbath being abolished under Big Pray is definitely pseudohistory.

MichaelBurk · Nov 27, 2012

Doesn't it say something about two witnesses always meaning something somewhere in the Bible?

What does that passage mean?

Cappadocious · Nov 27, 2012

MichaelBurk said:
Doesn't it say something about two witnesses always meaning something somewhere in the Bible?

What does that passage mean?

That's how you reported a valid testimony (I.E. two witnesses saw a woman committing adultery, etc.) in some instances of the OT Law.

That is why Christ says that he bears the testimony of two witnesses, Himself and God His Father (the Spirit had not been poured out/made known yet).

Definitely doesn't mean two omens.

PaladinValer · Nov 27, 2012

MichaelBurk said:
I got up in the middle of the night last night and put the T.V. on. They were re-airing the Mike Huckabe show, and some guy was talking about Divine Alignments.

I think it was the same guy who wrote a book called "When God Winks," and I'd like to know how many of you believe there's no such thing as coincidences.

When I went to our local Walmart on black Friday, I ran into two sets of Mormons I know.

A couple of months ago, when my dad was in the hospital, I talked to several Nigerian nurses who were 7th day Adventist, and after he was discharged from the hospital I noticed several copies of a book by Ellen G. White (called "The Great Controversy") in the free literature rack at Wawa.

I picked one up, but I left it in the van and never read it until I found the same book in our mail box a few weeks latter (not mailed, just in my mailbox.)

I sometimes leave the van open, and I thought someone (for some reason) might have taken the book out of the van and put it in the mail box as some kind of joke, but when I checked, I found I had two of them (and these books don't seem to be free, they have a retail price of $11.95 printed onthe back covers.)

So are there coincidences, or is God trying to tell me something?

When I turned on the T.V. last night, was God telling me there's no such thing as coincidences?

Was He telling me to listen to the Mormon missionaries (and convert, and be baptized a Mormon) when I ran into those two sets of Mormons the other day?

Was He telling me to join the 7th day Adventists the other month?

Is God really in control of everything?

Does everything really have a reason?

I'm very confused here (and would very much appreciate any thoughts.)

I've had an overwhelming amount of vivid dreams and chance meetings in my life. There is such a thing as coincidence and sometimes, as the saying goes, a cigar is just a cigar.

I highly doubt God would want you to join unorthodox religions like the Seventh Day Adventists (who think St. Michael is Jesus [and therefore, God], and teach Sabbatarianism, soul sleep/death, annihilationalism, and other unacceptable beliefs) or the Mormons (who reject the Trinity, believe in the Anthropomorphicism of God the Father, and hold secular beliefs that have long been proven to be false as religious tenants).

I think you should re investigate your own Anglicanism and remind yourself what you believe and why it is right, good, and true. When you do that, you will find that you will no longer be bothered by dreams or chance meetings like these and be able to discern between circumstance and coincidence from true Divine revelation.

MichaelBurk · Nov 27, 2012

PaladinValer said:
I've had an overwhelming amount of vivid dreams and chance meetings in my life. There is such a thing as coincidence and sometimes, as the saying goes, a cigar is just a cigar...

So you disagree with the premise behind books like "When God Winks," and "Divine Alignments"?

Squire Rushnell (the author of those books, and the guy who was being interviewed on Huckabee when I turned the T.V. on) seems to be saying there are no chance meetings.

What do you think of that?

PaladinValer said:
and hold secular beliefs that have long been proven to be false as religious tenants

What secular beliefs that have long been proven false do they hold as religious tenants?

Cappadocious · Nov 27, 2012

MichaelBurk said:
So you disagree with the premise behind books like "When God Winks," and "Divine Alignments"?

Squire Rushnell (the author of those books, and the guy who was being interviewed on Huckabee when I turned the T.V. on) seems to be saying there are no chance meetings.

What do you think of that?

What is the purpose of the horsehead nebula?

Doctor Strangelove · Nov 27, 2012

I have had occasions when I have had the same Bible verse come up several times. I don't mean flip through the Bible and the same page miraculously appears. I mean you study a passage. Then maybe in a conversation someone mentions the same passage without you having said anything about it. And maybe you hear the passage mentioned by someone yet again. I think in those circumstances it is legitimate to ask if there is anything in the passage you should be paying close attention to. On the other hand, you should not look for coincidences and think they are signs or think that just because of circumstances something might be true.

God will speak to you through His Word. I don't think you should worry about coincidences and think that maybe heterodox teachers could have a point because you encountered their ideas through unusual circumstances. I hope you think about what you learned as an Anglican and how that compares with any heterodox teachings you hear. And don't be afraid to ask your priest if you have any questions or concerns.

PaladinValer · Nov 27, 2012

MichaelBurk said:
So you disagree with the premise behind books like "When God Winks," and "Divine Alignments"?

Yup.

Squire Rushnell (the author of those books, and the guy who was being interviewed on Huckabee when I turned the T.V. on) seems to be saying there are no chance meetings.

What do you think of that?

Mike Huckabee is an adherent of several heterodox beliefs, so what he has to think of Mr. Rushnell is already suspect.

As for Mr. Rushnell, he is a non-theologian attempting to theologize. Not a good source to go to when attempting to comprehend or discern.

What secular beliefs that have long been proven false do they hold as religious tenants?

A pre-Columbian migration of ancient Middle-Eastern peoples to the Americas...

Cappadocious said:
What is the purpose of the horsehead nebula?

Chess is awesome?

Doctor Strangelove said:
I have had occasions when I have had the same Bible verse come up several times. I don't mean flip through the Bible and the same page miraculously appears. I mean you study a passage. Then maybe in a conversation someone mentions the same passage without you having said anything about it. And maybe you hear the passage mentioned by someone yet again. I think in those circumstances it is legitimate to ask if there is anything in the passage you should be paying close attention to. On the other hand, you should not look for coincidences and think they are signs or think that just because of circumstances something might be true.

Good advice for the most part, although I can think of several reasons why certain pages seem to unfold more than others...it has happen to me several times and much of it has to do with book binding, "bend-marks" in the backs of paperback books, the way someone opens a book, and in some people, habit.

MichaelBurk · Mar 4, 2013

Cappadocious said:
God's hand is in everything. But we cannot know what a given occurrence is part of in the economy of God. We know, however, that we are not to harlot after signs and omens. A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign.

God sends us trials, not dowsing rods.

Thank you.

Even though it's taken me a long time to reply, I've thought a lot about what you said here.

If I had to put my thoughts into words, I guess they'd be something like "God sends us trials, not dowsing rods' sounds good, but is it true?"

Could you explain what you mean, and back it up with scripture (or even some examples from the lives of the saints)?

Cappadocious · Mar 5, 2013

MichaelBurk said:
Thank you.

Even though it's taken me a long time to reply, I've thought a lot about what you said here.

If I had to put my thoughts into words, I guess they'd be something like "God sends us trials, not dowsing rods' sounds good, but is it true?"

Could you explain what you mean, and back it up with scripture (or even some examples from the lives of the saints)?

Our Father, Who art in Heaven,
Hallowed be thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come,
Thy Will be done,
On Earth as in Heaven.
Give us this day our Sustaining Bread,
And forgive us our debts
As we forgive our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.

All things are sent by God somehow. But Christ said, "did I not teach all things [publically]?" There is nothing in the Scriptures to suggest that God has written a secret divineable code into the happenings of the world. The Lord admonishes us not to seek after signs, not to worry about the future.

It is better to focus on the Sermon on the Mount than what a particular event might "mean", which means "what can I divine from this event?"

The Lord spoke the Sermon on the Mount clearly, and before all men. Far better to follow that command than seek after signs in the elemental principles of the world.

Regarding your Mormons:

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be anathema. As we said before, so say I now again, If any preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be anathema."

Trials are sent by God somehow. Could the false angels of light exist without God's sustaining hand? No. But that doesn't mean we ought to listen to them.

Christ loves us. Would he want us to waste our lives fretting fruitlessly over such signs, or would he want us to go out and minister the fruits of the Spirit?

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