Confession of sin?

Italia · Oct 13, 2004

Andrew said:
Well, we simply acknowledge that sin, talked to God about it, but what we should be confessing is our righteousness in Christ. IOW, I acknowledge my sin, say I'm sorry (as in any close relationship), then thank God that I already have forgiveness, that I am still righteousness by Christ's blood, and I move on in my walk with God.

.

Guess it's just semantics, then. Whenever I do something I know I shouldn't, or don't do something I know I should, I ask God to forgive me and I go on. I don't dwell on it for days... I know He has forgiven me.

In a lot of the above posts it seemed to say one didn't even have to say they were sorry. And that is what I heard preached by Bob George...that every time you tell God you are sorry it's like slapping Him in the face. I do not agree.

Adammi · Oct 13, 2004

Andrew said:
thanks for all the responses. But what I would really like to know is this:

How many of you, when you fail or sin or stumble, use 1 John 1:9 to 'get right' with God again? Or how many of you, teach other Christians that when they sin, they should confess their sins (pointing them to 1 Jn 1:9) to be right with God again?

Of course, "right with God" here in the context means "cleansed of all unrighteousness".

My point is that 1 John 1:9 has been misused by the church this way and that the verse is not for Christians.

But that John was writing this to address the problem of gnosticism, a false teaching that had risen within the church, which teaches among other things, that there is no sin. Hence -- "if you say that you have no sin... but if we confess our sins..."

I wld also like to suggest that Paul never -- in his epistles to the churches -- taught about confession of sin when we Christians sin. The Corinthian church -- considered the most carnal then -- is one example. He never told them to go confess their sins to be "right with God" again, to be "cleansed of all unrighteousness", but he reminded them of who they were in Christ or that Christ was in them.

any thots?

I confess my sins to "get right with God". I love my Jesus, and I want nothing in the way of our relationship. I know that OSAS people won't let us use OT examples, but Psalm 50 is a beautiful prayer of forgiveness.
I think that the Catholic Church has went astray in many ways, but many Christian Truths can be seen behind the veil of Sacramentalism:
We do not have to confess to a priest, but the principle of confessing our sins to God and to man (not for forgiveness of course, to man that is) has not changed. Confirmaiton is not as sound biblically as it could be, but the church as always taught that the reception, in full, of the Holy Ghost is a Second Work of Grace, after salvation.

Andrew · Oct 13, 2004

but the principle of confessing our sins to God and to man (not for forgiveness of course, to man that is) has not changed.

I would like to see some scripture for that -- the part about confessing sins to God.

Blade · Oct 14, 2004

Andrew said:
Sure. Some Bibles give the background to the various books in the Bible to help us understnd why what was written was written. The Spirit-Filled Life Bible for eg, gives a bit of background to 1 John. You can also look up websites to the background of 1 John. Briefly, in 1 John, John was writing to address a false teaching (gnosticism) that had arisen from within the church. Among other things, gnosticism teaches that Jesus did not come in the flesh and that there is no sin. Hence you have John declaring that Jesus came in the flesh in the gospel of John, and also he writes "if we say that we have no sin..." in 1 John, addressing the heresy of gnosticism that says there is no sin.

My pastor quoted from a Spirit-Filled Life Bible when teaching on this topic. The Bible gave a backgroung to 1 Jn and talked about gnosticism and how John was addressing the problem. If I can get hold of those notes, I'll post it one day.

So if 1 Jn 1:9 is not for Christians to use ie confess their sins to be made righteous again and again whenever they sin, then what do we do when we sin?

Well, we simply acknowledge that sin, talked to God about it, but what we should be confessing is our righteousness in Christ. IOW, I acknowledge my sin, say I'm sorry (as in any close relationship), then thank God that I already have forgiveness, that I am still righteousness by Christ's blood, and I move on in my walk with God.

This is very different from confessing our sin to be forgiven and to be made righteous again. But this is what most Christians do, becos they've been told to do this based on 1 Jn 1:9. Yet 1 Jn 1:9 is not talking about this.

Hope I made things clearer blade.

Well I still think he was talking to christians. As for the way you acknowledge sin is perfect to me. I see now before I was looking at how you said it (my bad) wrong. I should say I don't confess my sins to become more rightous because he keeps trying to tell me how rightous I am even when I know I just missed it. I say it because I don't want anything to hinder or stop God when praying for someone or my walk with him.

Thanks Andrew

Adammi · Oct 15, 2004

Andrew said:
I would like to see some scripture for that -- the part about confessing sins to God.

Get your Bible, open it, and start reading. Chances are it won't take long

Andrew · Oct 18, 2004

Havent found any as far as the NC is concerned. Paul didnt teach it either.

Father Rick · Oct 25, 2004

Written to Christians...

1 John 1:8 If R25 we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth R26 is not in us. 9 If R27 we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to R28 cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If R29 we say that we have not sinned, we make R30 Him a liar and His R31 word is not in us.

And again

1 John 2:1 My R32 little children, I am writing R33 these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we R34 have an Advocate R35F1 with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the R36 propitiation F2 for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for R37 those of the whole world.

q JOhn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing F39 a sin not leading to death, he R253 shall ask and God F40 will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death.

First... it is HIS righteousness imparted to us instead of our own righteousness--which is as filthy rags. We stand before God clothed in HIM, not in our own self.

Second... even though we have the standing of righteousness because of what Jesus has done and imparted to us, we still have to deal with the junk in our lives. This is the process of sanctification. The Orthodox have a term for this called 'divinization' (not to be confused with divination or witchcraft). Divinization is the process of being made more like the divine-- in other words the process of become more Christ-like.

Even though we have full standing with God as a son and a joint-heir with Christ from the moment of our rebirth, there is still the life-long process of being changed to be more and more like Him.

Andrew · Oct 25, 2004

Father Rick said:
Written to Christians...

So Christians say they have no sin? Well, in the first place, they had to confess their sins and their need for a saviour b4 they could become Christians. So it doesnt make sense to say its written to people who deny sin when actually they acknowledged sin.

First... it is HIS righteousness imparted to us instead of our own righteousness--which is as filthy rags. We stand before God clothed in HIM, not in our own self.

yes of cse, agreed.

Second... even though we have the standing of righteousness because of what Jesus has done and imparted to us, we still have to deal with the junk in our lives. This is the process of sanctification. The Orthodox have a term for this called 'divinization' (not to be confused with divination or witchcraft). Divinization is the process of being made more like the divine-- in other words the process of become more Christ-like.

we call that the washing of water with the word, not sanctification, becos the Bible says we are already sanctiFIED made holy in Christ. It is our feet (daily walk) that needs washing with the word, but we do not need to bathe again. That happens only once.

So in the verses, its talking about being cleansed of all unrighteousness. That can only happen once at the new birth. As you've said its a gift.

So, how many times do you want to be made righteous? 7 times a day?

Even though we have full standing with God as a son and a joint-heir with Christ from the moment of our rebirth, there is still the life-long process of being changed to be more and more like Him.

yes, but this has nothing to do with the verse -- with being made righteous.

lovesblessing · Oct 27, 2004

Hi Andrew!

Edited because I was believing the scripture very wrong......as I now know with great joy and thanksgiving to Jesus and Father God!!!!!

Under God's Grace is the ONLY way to live!!!!!

Blessings to you!

lovesblessing

Andrew · Oct 27, 2004

I understnd what you are saying lovesblessings,

but let me ask you:

1. Where in the NC does it tell us to confess our sins to God?

2. When you fall sick, you confess your healing, so how come when you fall into sin, you confess your sin, instead of your righteousness in Christ?

3. The NC says in 2 or 3 places that God remembers our sins no more and does not keep a record of them, so why remind Him?

4. And which is more Christ-honoring? Confessing our righteousness in Christ ie pointing to the cross; or reminding God of our sins which He has wiped off?

4. Finally, the point of my thread is to show that confession of sin to be "cleansed of all unrighteousness" BASED ON 1 Jn 1:9, is an erroneous doctrine or tradition of man, simply becos you CANNOT be made righteous over and over and over again....Neither can you lose some of your righteousness (and become 1/2 righteous) or all of it when you sin. It just doesnt square up with the Gospel.

I hope you understnd where I'm coming from.

Blade · Oct 27, 2004

"1 Jn 1:9, is an erroneous doctrine or tradition of man, simply becos you CANNOT be made righteous over and over and over again"

You know if this were something other preachers out there believed and taught I would wonder but so far in my searching, spirit filled or not I don't find anyone saying what you say about this verse Andrew. You are right about "rightousness" it is through Christ. But I know for a fact that there are times that I am not hearing, or receiving for God because of unconfessed sin.

Andrew · Oct 27, 2004

Blade said:
"1 Jn 1:9, is an erroneous doctrine or tradition of man, simply becos you CANNOT be made righteous over and over and over again"

You know if this were something other preachers out there believed and taught I would wonder but so far in my searching, spirit filled or not I don't find anyone saying what you say about this verse Andrew. You are right about "rightousness" it is through Christ. But I know for a fact that there are times that I am not hearing, or receiving for God because of unconfessed sin.

I understnd your concerns blade, I know this is rather "unorthodox" or not the norm, but I believe I have a point here. Also, it is not just my belief, but that of my church too.

Also, pls note that I'm not talking about ignoring sin or pretending you didn't do it. We know and God certainly knows, when we've sinned. It's how we deal with the situation.

And I have yet to see one NC scripture on the believer having to confess his sin to God everytime he sins, in order to be forgiven and/or cleansed of all unrighteousness (ie made righteous again).

Perhaps I missed it, but I'm quite certain there aren't any.

Blade · Oct 27, 2004

Andrew said:
I understnd your concerns blade, I know this is rather "unorthodox" or not the norm, but I believe I have a point here. Also, it is not just my belief, but that of my church too.

Also, pls note that I'm not talking about ignoring sin or pretending you didn't do it. We know and God certainly knows, when we've sinned. It's how we deal with the situation.

And I have yet to see one NC scripture on the believer having to confess his sin to God everytime he sins, in order to be forgiven and/or cleansed of all unrighteousness (ie made righteous again).

Perhaps I missed it, but I'm quite certain there aren't any.

I had no concerns and I don't think you missed it and I never thought you ment "ignore sin". I do believe you have something on the "righteousness" part because no matter how bad I saw myself or the sin he always wanted me to see myself as righteous.

lovesblessing · Oct 28, 2004

Uh, well......duh! Nevermind......I know better now.....Glory to God!!!!!

lovesblessing

Andrew · Oct 28, 2004

Hi lovesblessings,

In Hebrews 3, 4 & 5 it talks about Jesus being our high priest, the one to whom we must give account of all things. (See Heb. 4:12 & 13)

I fail to see what Heb 4:12,13 has got to do with confession of sin becos it talks about the Word being a double-edged sword. Maybe you meant some other verse.

Like I said before, we confess when we sin, just to cleanse ourselves of it and to have our confidence before God restored.

Not quite sure what you mean here but surely you do not believe that our confession cleanses us of our sins or our conscience. I'm sure you know that only the Blood qualifies. And we have already been cleansed -- we bathe once only (born-again), but need to wash our feet daily (renewing of the mind with the washing of the word).

If we never had anything else for God to forgive us for, then why did Paul say in Hebrews that Jesus is our mediator before God? Constantly, all the time. Why would Jesus need to be our intercessor with God for us, if we never confessed when we make a mess of our walk and need to be cleansed of that new sin?

Jesus is not there at the Father's right hand to give out forgiveness in installments every time we confess our sins. Neither is He there as a Friday-confession RC priest. I think if you read the passage again, you'll get a very diff picture:

Heb 10
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience [ie no longer conscious of sins], and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith [not confession of our sins!] without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised

But to cleanse our consceince from all unrighteousness, we have to confess the sin, to Jesus,

There isnt such as thing as an unrighteous or righteous conscience. The Bible speaks of "evil", "good" and "weak" conscience, but never righteous or unrighteous conscience. A man is either righteous in Christ or he is not. There are no inbetweens.

I think what you mean is a guilty conscience. The only way then to silence or satisfy a guilty conscience is to revert back to the cross. ie you have to tell your conscience that yes, its a sin, yes you fell, yes you deserve hell for it, BUT yes the sin has been punished, yes Christ has died on my behalf, yes the blood covers it -- that's the only way to silence the conscience of sin or evil conscience.

I think the crux of this thread is this: Do you believe that when you sin, you lose your righteousness or some of it, and that to get back 100% righteousness, you need to confess your sin to God.

If you do not believe this, then to be consistent, you cannot believe that 1 Jn 1:9 is for the believer.

lovesblessing · Oct 28, 2004

I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus and there is now therefore no condemnation unto me! Glory to God! Thank you Jesus for the free gift of righteousness.......thank you for your awesome amazing Grace......and abundant perfect peace in you, Jesus!!!!!

lovesblessing

xsynerinc · Oct 29, 2004

i also believe that the letter of 1 jhn is written to believers - including confessing sins. in 1:7 John talks about fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin.
1:8 is a contrast to vs.7,
"if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us."

in what situations would there be to say that we have no sin?
is it just after we recognize that the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin?
no. John pointed out: its in such occaisions that someone does not accept the truth of the gospel and believes something else.

1:9 states the correct means of being cleansed of sin. and John continues in 2:1, by saying "little children", (in Christ). if anyone sins, (though he is saved), we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

i have no problem in using these scriptures to be restored to fellowship with my heavenly Father when sin stands in the way.

the blood allowed me to come into God's presence and find the scriptural help that eventually delivered me from what had been a chronic sin.
its better to be delivered than to make up excuses for a weakness of the flesh and latch on to a doctrine that allows you to continue to deceive yourself.

---
it is pleasant to keep God's wise words within me, that they may be ready on my lips, that my trust may be in the Lord. ~ prov.22:17-19

Andrew · Oct 29, 2004

What you are saying then, is that you can lose your righteousness or some of it -- a doctrine that is alien to the Gospel.

Emma! · Nov 4, 2004

Jesus took our sin for us on the cross....if you look to the original text (Greek & Hebrew) sin is referring to our sinful NATURE NOT just the sin as an act.

Jesus was a ONCE and for all offering.....meaning we DONT have to keep asking for forgiveness.....its like saying He didnt do a good enough job and He is only as good as the animal offerings of the OT, He DID IT, ALL OF IT. We dont have to ask for forgivness because He has ALREADY forgiven us.

He did NOT leave things half done!!! He said it IS DONE!! complete!!!

Our sinful nature is dealt with and gone....which means that our sins from the past are forgiven or current sins and the ones of tomorrow.

Another interesting thing is that we always are 'looking at ourselves' seeing what we need to change but only ONCE in the Bible it says to 'look at yourself' and that is where you are coming to the alter and you need to see that your relationship is right with the people....not God.

I think that when Jesus would say to people 'go and sin no more' was like Him saying dont hang around things that are not like you...sin has no place near you so dont hang around it, you have been cleansed of that...acknowledge it and live it. Dont be fooled by the enemy into thinking that it has any place near you, dont let him lie to you and try to entangle you because it has no place near you...you are free and cleansed.

We need to keep our eyes on Him and forget about sin, when we do this He does a work (that He did on the cross) and fades sin to nothing and shows us that its no longer there. Thats where we find the true freedom that He has freely given to us.

songbird88 · Nov 6, 2004

Well bro I know you well enough that I suspect that you already know the answer to this question and are just soliciting opinions.

Andrew said:
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Question: If this verse means that Christians have to confess their sins everytime they sin to be cleansed from all unrighteousness (as is commonly taught) then:

1. Do we become unrighteous or less righteous when we sin?
2. How many times are we supposed to be cleansed of "all unrighteouness". Isn't righteousness a gift i.e. either you have it or you dont?

People who read 1 John and think it means that we are still sinful in our spirit have a great problem in their thinking. They read the verse that you quote as well as the verses previous to it and get into an endless loop. You confess that you are sinful... but then you would be sinless because He forgave you and cleansed you... but then you would be lying if you said you were sinless.... so you would have to confess again...
around and around and around.

The solution is to simply read the verses in context:

5 And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

This verse sets the stage. If you are with God, then you are in the light. If you are in darkness, then you are not with God.

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

This verse simply carries on the thought of the previous verse. If you are walking in darkness and claim to be in continued fellowship with God, then you are lying. There is no darkness in God, so if you find yourself in darkness you can not be in fellowship with God. This is only talking to beleivers who claim to still be in fellowship with God while they are in darkness. He is not saying all believers are in darkness, nor is he saying all believers are in sin. He is only talking to believers who have sinned and who in that state of darkness claim they are still in fellowship. This is not the normal state or the normal Christian life. This is only describing believers who have sinned, who are in darkness, and so are in truth out of fellowship with God.

7 but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Again he reasserts the fact that God is in the light, and the only way we can also be in the light is if we have been cleansed from all sin and so are in fellowship with God. In no way shape or manner is he suggesting that being in sinfulness, darkness, and being out of fellowship is the normal state for believers. The normal state for believers is to be in the light, cleansed from all sin, and in fellowship with God.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

A second time he returns to those who are in darkness. If they find themselves in darkness (and out of fellowship) then it can only be for one reason: they have sinned. If you are out of fellowship and in darkness and claim you got there without sinning, THEN you decieve yourself and the truth is not in your. HE IS NOT SAYING SIN IS THE NORMAL STATE OF THE BELIEVER. He is only talking to those who are in darkness and claim they got there without sinning. THEY DID. That is how you get into darkness and out of fellowship.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

This is the remedy for those who find themselve in darkness, marred with unrighteousness , and our of fellowship. Confess your sins and He is faithful to forgive you your sin and cleanse you. As above, this is only talking to those who have sinned and who are out of fellowship. He is not talking to those who are with God in the light.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Again, he is only talking to believers who have sinned. He is not talking to those of us who are in the light, who are walking in fellowship, and who have been cleansed.

This is one of the most mangled passages in the NT and has led many believers to go about in confusion. Are we righteous or are we not? WE ARE. If you are not in darkess then this passage does not apply to you. It only applies to those who are in darkness, and so out of fellowship, and who claim they did not sin.

This verse tells you in no uncertain terms what the normal Christian life is:

1 John 3
9. No one born of God commits sin; for God's nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God.

That part of you that was born again CANNOT sin. It is totally incapable of sinning. It cannot sin because it has the nature of God. We cannot sin from the heart because HE (our Father) cannot sin from the heart. THAT is the normal Christian life!

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