Communism...

owenred · Jan 2, 2008

I am just wondering what your ideas are on the subject of Communism. Many people fear it due to countries, such as Russia China and North Korea. However, I dont believe that these countries were truly communist, even though they professed to be. Indeed I dont see how any totalitarian regime can claim to have all men equal etc.

I am a Christian Communist. The reasons for this are:

Christ teaches us to be selfless.
Communism detests selfishness.
Capitalism requires selfishness to survive.

The questions I am asking are:

1. Do you agree with the above points?

2. How should we devote our lives to god in a Capitalist system, which requires selfishness to survive?

I dont have much time to write this - sorry - but Ill look forward to seeing your answers asap.

Cheers

sebastian · Jan 3, 2008

1. Do you agree with the above points?

90% of it.
communist countries and marxism are not the same i agree. I have always liked the idea of socialism but have had trouble seeing how it could work in pratice.

Christ teaches us to be selfless.

Communism detests selfishness.

Capitalism requires selfishness to survive.

my only issue here is over simplification.

Jesus does teach us to be selfless but also that those blessed with wealth have the responsablity to help those without. He didn't teach we should have nothing unless we are given a specific calling. Also selfishness and unselfishness as terms are too vague.

2. How should we devote our lives to god in a Capitalist system, which requires selfishness to survive?

the system requires it but we don't have to be selfish, if you see someone in need, then help them.

WolvesChristian · Jan 3, 2008

I am a Socialist. I just wish people wouldn't confuse Communism and Socialism with each other. Enjoyed your post by the way!

Pogue · Jan 3, 2008

owenred said:
I am just wondering what your ideas are on the subject of Communism. Many people fear it due to countries, such as Russia China and North Korea. However, I dont believe that these countries were truly communist, even though they professed to be. Indeed I dont see how any totalitarian regime can claim to have all men equal etc.

I am a Christian Communist. The reasons for this are:

Christ teaches us to be selfless.
Communism detests selfishness.
Capitalism requires selfishness to survive.

The questions I am asking are:

1. Do you agree with the above points?

2. How should we devote our lives to god in a Capitalist system, which requires selfishness to survive?

I dont have much time to write this - sorry - but Ill look forward to seeing your answers asap.

Cheers

I agree with pretty much all that you've said. I'm quite interested in the idea of Christian Communism, although I'm not sure if I subscribe to the idea myself, at least, probably not enough to call myself a Christian communist. In my earlier years (not that I'm especially old now! ) I was a Marxist, but found that it conflicted too horribly with my religion, and in the end, one or the other had to go. But politically, many of my views are in line with communism, just not Marxism. I think that the capitalist system is fundamentally flawed- it fails certain people in society, and I think that's the opposite of what Christianity is about. And like you said, I don't think any countries which profess to be communist are truly communist- Cuba might come close, but there are flaws.
I'm not wholly convinced that the idea of 'Christian Communism' fully works, though, at least not in my mind. I tend to keep my religious ideas fairly seperate from my political ones, as I believe that religion has to transcend politics. So while I think it's fine to say somebody's both a Christian and a communist, I struggle with the idea of a Christian communist.

SandbachSteve · Jan 3, 2008

I'm not a Communist but I can relate to some of the basic values of Communism. I remember a christian friend once telling me that he couldn't understand how Capitalism and Christianity had become so interlinked when they are actually incompatible. Jesus certainly wouldn't have been a capitalist.

non-religious · Jan 3, 2008

Jesus certainly wouldn't have been a capitalist.

Try telling that to Benny Hinn, Ken Copeland, Mike Murdoch, Joyce Meyer, Jakes, Creflo Dollar and there horrendous ilk....

Capitalism is still thriving in certain Christian circles....

william7 · Jan 20, 2008

Christian Communism is a worthy topic of study in my opinion. Didn't Jesus teach it and His disciples along with the early Christian Church in Acts practice it? Matthew19:20-27; Acts 2:44-45; 4:32-35.

I believe the only reason communism hasn't succeeded is because it hasn't been done correctly. Atheists, tyrants, and pagans seem to screw it up every time.

There's an interesting discussion going on at the Immortality Institute (ImmInst.org) in their religion subforum in a thread entitled Christian Communism II about the merits of Christian Communism and its potential to solve the problem of the technological singularity and to make it possible to live out radically extended lifespans just as the Bible prophesies for the Millennium and beyond. Isaiah 65:20-25; Revelation 21:3-4.

May be serious Christians should consider living communally and reaping the benefits of living life simply without material possessions. It certainly would solve a lot of problems to do so.

Allister · Jan 21, 2008

It seems that human nature demands that we live in hierarchical social structures and that any society attempting to deviate from it will encounter huge problems and will probably not be able to overcome them.

The God concept is the most extreme example of the human desire to live within a hierarchical command structure.

sebastian · Jan 22, 2008

May be serious Christians should consider living communally and reaping the benefits of living life simply without material possessions. It certainly would solve a lot of problems to do so.

there's a group in the UK called the Jesus Army where many members do.

Agermeister · Jan 22, 2008

having to study it for history A level, the concept isn't bad but in practice it would always be exploited by selfishness of people, and people aren't passionate enough about politics to be bothered in Britain, revolution would disturb our afternoon tea, but it is a very interesting subject, despite its secular background a lot of its messages are fairly christian, everyone is equal in the eyes of God, I find it such a fascinating subject

Cjwinnit · Jan 29, 2008

No-one cleans a rental car

RedAndy · Jan 30, 2008

Agermeister said:
having to study it for history A level, the concept isn't bad but in practice it would always be exploited by selfishness of people, and people aren't passionate enough about politics to be bothered in Britain, revolution would disturb our afternoon tea, but it is a very interesting subject, despite its secular background a lot of its messages are fairly christian, everyone is equal in the eyes of God, I find it such a fascinating subject

There is your problem. I used to be a Marxist but I have gradually moved towards a less radical brand of socialism over the past couple of years or so. The difficulty with "pure" communism as I see it is that it is a philosophical notion rather than a realistic espousal of a possible political system. This, by the way, is exactly the same as the problem with "pure" free-market capitalism. Coherent political structures have to embrace reality as well as ideology, and this is where communist states in the past have fallen down. It's all very well saying "we are all equal" but how is that equality upheld in practice? Ultimately the job of maintaining equality falls to people, and the sort of people who take those kinds of jobs happen to also be the sort who corrupt very, very easily indeed. Communism in its pure, ideological form would be impossible to implement as a system of government; what is needed is a combination of some communist ideals with realistic, democratic and socialist structures.

Cjwinnit · Jan 31, 2008

RedAndy said:
Ultimately the job of maintaining equality falls to people, and the sort of people who take those kinds of jobs happen to also be the sort who corrupt very, very easily indeed.

Which is why, in my opinion, the Government is the least-qualified body to surrender more power to.

I'm still quite surprised anyone is seriously considering this in the 21st century to be honest, though I'm trying hard to respect your position...

RedAndy · Jan 31, 2008

Cjwinnit said:
Which is why, in my opinion, the Government is the least-qualified body to surrender more power to.

Doesn't make a difference. If you look at all positions of power - in government, in business, in academia, in diplomacy and so forth - the top dogs are always the ones who are most open to corruption. In my view it is better to let a democratic government, with a modicum of accountability, wield most of the power rather than private individuals with no concern but for themselves.

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