Co-Redemptrix: Churches View.

BAFRIEND · Mar 14, 2007

I am stupid for ever having started this thread. It was never intended that its purpose was for Evangelicals to use the issue as a sounding board to attack the Catholic Church. It was simply to point out the fact that Jesus was the Sole Mediator.

I have no problem with titles for Blessed Mary and pray the Rosary.

Thank you for qouting the New testament which is a testament to the Church that canonized it (historical fact). It is funny that the RCC and Judaism, compilers and in most cases authors of The Bible and inspired by the Holy Spirit have their texts used against them by the Evangelicals who sprang up, in historical perspective, fairly recently on the scene.

StTherese · Mar 14, 2007

Iollain said:
Well you totally disreguarded that IamAdopted was talking about the indwelling of the Spirit, which is how Jesus dwells in us, and compared your Communion with reading and hearing:

Actually, I didn't answer because that is not what this thread is about.

Originally Posted by StTherese
Receiving the Eucharist IS literally receiving Him inside of us...much more personal than reading and hearing, IMHO.

So the indwelling of the Spirit is not receiving Him inside of us?

The Spirit who dwells in the Church also abides in the heart of every member of the faithful: he is the dulcis hospes animae. Following a path of conversion and personal sanctification, then, means allowing ourselves to be "led" by the Spirit (cf. Rom 8:14), letting him act, pray and love in us. "Becoming holy" is possible if we allow ourselves to be made holy by him who is the Holy One, by docilely co-operating with his transforming action. For this reason, since the primary objective of the Jubilee is to strengthen the faith and witness of Christians, "it is necessary to inspire in all the faithful a true longing for holiness, a deep desire for conversion and personal renewal in a context of ever more intense prayer and of solidarity with one's neighbour, especially the most needy" (Tertio millennia adveniente, n, 42).

We can think of the Holy Spirit as the soul of our soul, and thus the secret of our sanctification. Let us dwell in his powerful and discreet, intimate and transforming presence!

St Paul teaches us that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit within us is closely connected with Jesus' Resurrection and is also the basis of our final resurrection: "If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit who dwells in you" (Rom 8:11).

In eternal happiness we will live in the joyful fellowship that is now prefigured and anticipated by the Eucharist. Then the Spirit will bring to full maturity all the seeds of communion, love and brotherhood that have blossomed during our earthly pilgrimage. As St Gregory of Nyssa says, "surrounded by the unity of the Holy Spirit as the bond of peace, all will be one Body and one Spirit" (Hom. 15 in Cant.).

So at what point in your Pentecostalism did you decide that the Holy Spirit indwelling was not what Jesus was talking about, but the RCC Exclusive Eucharist?

I don't exactly understand your question...since I do believe Jesus taught of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. He also instituted the Eucharist at the Last Supper.

sunlover1 · Mar 14, 2007

BAFRIEND said:
I am stupid for ever having started this thread. It was never intended that its purpose was for Evangelicals to use the issue as a sounding board to attack the Catholic Church. It was simply to point out the fact that Jesus was the Sole Mediator.

That was a good motive.
It's not your fault people are proud.
It wouldn't matter what the thread
was about, this would happen.
There is a problem.

Thank you for qouting the New testament which is a testament to the Church that canonized it (historical fact). It is funny that the RCC and Judaism, compilers and in most cases authors of The Bible and inspired by the Holy Spirit have their texts used against them by the Evangelicals who sprang up, in historical perspective, fairly recently on the scene.

See.
Guess we're all guilty.

StTherese · Mar 14, 2007

BAFRIEND said:
I am stupid for ever having started this thread. It was never intended that its purpose was for Evangelicals to use the issue as a sounding board to attack the Catholic Church.

It seems some have a passion for that.

It was simply to point out the fact that Jesus was the Sole Mediator.

I have no problem with titles for Blessed Mary and pray the Rosary.

Actually the thread has helped me to understand more clearly the meanings of these titles of Mary. I actually wasn't absolutely positive if it was in fact a dogma of the Church or not before this thread...so thank you!

BAFRIEND · Mar 14, 2007

StTherese said:
It seems some have a passion for that.

Actually the thread has helped me to understand more clearly the meanings of these titles of Mary. I actually wasn't absolutely positive if it was in fact a dogma of the Church or not before this thread...so thank you!

Bless you for that. I actually got caught up in this forum after reading in oBOB that it was one to stay away from. I should have taken the advice but got caught up in my own pride.

Iollain · Mar 14, 2007

StTherese said:
I don't exactly understand your question...since I do believe Jesus taught of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. He also instituted the Eucharist at the Last Supper.

You said that Jesus dwells in Christians by the RCC Eucharist, the Pentecostals believe that Jesus dwells in Christians by the Spirit. So somewhere along the line you must have decided that the RCC Eucharist is what the Bible is talking about.

You said that to IamA when she was talking about the indwelling of the Spirit........

Originally Posted by StTherese
Receiving the Eucharist IS literally receiving Him inside of us...much more personal than reading and hearing, IMHO.

So anyway, it just freaked me out that you would not know what she was talking about if you were Pentecostal.....no big deal.

Iollain · Mar 14, 2007

BAFRIEND said:
I am stupid for ever having started this thread. It was never intended that its purpose was for Evangelicals to use the issue as a sounding board to attack the Catholic Church. It was simply to point out the fact that Jesus was the Sole Mediator.

But it's ok when RCs attack Evangelicals on your thread?

BAFRIEND · Mar 14, 2007

Iollain said:
But it's ok when RCs attack Evangelicals on your thread?

Didn't I defend you in my second post ? But that changed when it became apparent that you intended to turn this thread into an attack board against my original purpose... all viewpoints are valid.

Iollain · Mar 14, 2007

BAFRIEND said:
Didn't I defend you in my second post ? But that changed when it became apparent that you intended to turn this thread into an attack board against my original purpose... all viewpoints are valid.

Yes you did, and thank you. However that is ok if someone wants to 'attack' me then i'll have to answer them.

This topic is one i really have a problem with, that is why i get so passionate. These titles are not necessary, are taking away from Jesus, and the Spirit, and they are certainly anti-Protestant and driving a huge wedge between us as a Church.

StTherese · Mar 14, 2007

Iollain said:
Yes you did, and thank you. However that is ok if someone wants to 'attack' me then i'll have to answer them.

This topic is one i really have a problem with, that is why i get so passionate. These titles are not necessary, are taking away from Jesus, and the Spirit, and they are certainly anti-Protestant and driving a huge wedge between us as a Church.

The titles we use for Mary are in no way intended to take away from Christ...but to honor Him.

Just because Protestants don't use these titles for Mary doesn't mean they are anti-Protestant. I think many protestants just don't understand the Catholic perspectives, especially about Mary, and they assume things that are just not true.

BAFRIEND · Mar 14, 2007

Iollain said:
Yes you did, and thank you. However that is ok if someone wants to 'attack' me then i'll have to answer them.

This topic is one i really have a problem with, that is why i get so passionate. These titles are not necessary, are taking away from Jesus, and the Spirit, and they are certainly anti-Protestant and driving a huge wedge between us as a Church.

I do not feel that the Rosary or a devotion to the Blessed Mother is necessary for salvation.

Many in the Catholic Church are not involved in it. I will go out on a limb and say the vast majority of the converts to Catholicism do not practice it.

Groups within the Church that use titles to detract from Jesus or argue a Co-Redemptrix are in error. but not all titles bestowed upon Blessed Mary are wrong. One title is "Your Mother" ... the title Jesus himself used while on the Cross. In John 2 Mary gives her only theological advice: "Do whatever he tells you."

CaliforniaJosiah · Mar 14, 2007

MY perspective...

repentant said:
My question is: why do people care

1. Truth matters.

2. Because I love and esteem Our Blessed Lady, and in a sense I adore, revere, venerate and worship her, therefore I do not want to say anything incorrect about her and therefore be painful and dishonoring to her and thereby the fruit of her womb.

3. These are DOGMAS of the CC and in some cases of the EO that divide Christianity and have been used to issue anathamas, justify proclaimations of heresy and excommunications, and suggest a valid questioning of salvation. That makes it relevent in an ecumenical discussion.

4. CF is not an apologetics website, it's an ecumenical website. It exists to advance unity where such does not exist, therefore we need to address where it does not exist.

5. John 17.

Thank you for the discussion and for reading my $0.01.
May God richly bless you and yours in Christ our Suffering Servant in this holy season of Lent.

Pax!

- Josiah

IamAdopted · Mar 14, 2007

One title is "Your Mother" ... the title Jesus himself used while on the Cross. In John 2 Mary gives her only theological advice: "Do whatever he tells you."

He told John this. Not the church.. Scripture tells us who our mother is and it is not Mary..

IamAdopted · Mar 14, 2007

Has anyone seen Bene Lately? Praying all is well with her and her family..

sunlover1 · Mar 14, 2007

IamAdopted said:
Has anyone seen Bene Lately? Praying all is well with her and her family..

No, she's been on my mind too.
Her absence is felt.

IamAdopted · Mar 14, 2007

sunlover1 said:
No, she's been on my mind too.
Her absence is felt.

Ya I am praying for her and her family. I am praying they are on a vacation and having a great time and if not that all is well and Jesus will touch her deeply

B16uRock · Mar 14, 2007

IamAdopted said:
Having Him live inside of you and revealing His truth in His word. Hearing the voice of the shepherd and following no other..

Catholics believe in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and follow all the other examples you listed. We take Jesus literally, when He said..."This is my Body" and "This is my Blood", so recieving the Eucharist is a very intimate and personal way, to experince Jesus in our lives.

IamAdopted · Mar 14, 2007

B16uRock said:
Catholics believe in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and follow all the other examples you listed. We take Jesus literally, when He said..."This is my Body" and "This is my Blood", so recieving the Eucharist is a very intimate and personal way, to experince Jesus in our lives.

What Does Jesus say? Men shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God..Jesus is the true bread from Heaven.. Read what the bible has to say about the word.. It is truth. When we first are born again we desire the milk of the word. When we grow we desire the meat of the word... If Christ is the true bread from Heaven and He is the word made Flesh then what is the true bread from Heaven? His word.. We are to eat it and eat it and eat it and think it and live it and walk it and submit ourselves to this word.. For all scripture is God breathed...

B16uRock · Mar 14, 2007

IamAdopted said:
What Does Jesus say? Men shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God..Jesus is the true bread from Heaven.. Read what the bible has to say about the word.. It is truth. When we first are born again we desire the milk of the word. When we grow we desire the meat of the word... If Christ is the true bread from Heaven and He is the word made Flesh then what is the true bread from Heaven? His word.. We are to eat it and eat it and eat it and think it and live it and walk it and submit ourselves to this word.. For all scripture is God breathed...

Jesus, is talking about ordinary bread; the Eucharist is not ordinary bread. The Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord. Once it is consecrated, it is no longer bread and wine, it is Jesus.

repentant · Mar 14, 2007

IamAdopted said:
Because the bible tell us that if we see a brother or sister in err to show them the truth..There is so much in Christ for anyone who will believe as His word is written.. He takes off the heavy yoke and puts on His easy yoke..Giving Gods glory to another is so wrong.. God is a Jeleous God and will share His glory with no one. Not even Mary for she was human. She is not divine.

Actually the Bible says to only try to correct someone 3 times. You are well beyond that...

Co-Redemptrix: Churches View.

Well-Known Member

Peace begins with a smile :)

Beloved, Let us love one another

Peace begins with a smile :)

Well-Known Member

Jer 18:2-6

Jer 18:2-6

Well-Known Member

Jer 18:2-6

Peace begins with a smile :)

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Beloved, Let us love one another

Well-Known Member

B16uRock

Guest

Well-Known Member

B16uRock

Guest

Orthodoxy: Debunking heretics since 33 A.D.

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency