Co-Redeemer?

Benedicta00 · Mar 19, 2007

Rick Otto said:
"When there is sin there is no grace when there is grace there is no sin."

Grace is where sin is, because that is where it is needed.

Red herring.

Sin and Mary having it was dealt with by God's grace. that's why she ever had it.. grace.

.

lionroar0 · Mar 19, 2007

Romans 5:20-21
But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death,
even so might grace reign through righteousness
unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.[/QUOTE]

Click to expand...

Exactly why it's a red herring.

I wasn't discussing that. Different topic

I do agree with that though.

We do need grace because of sin.

Peace

Benedicta00 · Mar 19, 2007

lionroar0 said:
Romans 5:20-21
But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death,
even so might grace reign through righteousness
unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.[/QUOTE]

Click to expand...

Exactly why it's a red herring.

I wasn't discussing that. Different topic

I do agree with that though.

We do need grace because of sin.

Peace

Click to expand...

and why Mary had no sin- becuase of grace. she was full of grace.
.

Rick Otto · Mar 19, 2007

Mary was no different in that respect.

Uphill Battle · Mar 19, 2007

Benedicta00 said:
lionroar0 said:

and why Mary had no sin- becuase of grace. she was full of grace.
.

Click to expand...

and you assert that being "full" of Grace leaves no room for sin, correct?

What about being full of the HS?

Benedicta00 · Mar 19, 2007

Rick Otto said:
Mary was no different in that respect.

and we whole heartily agree. .

lionroar0 · Mar 19, 2007

A long time ago in Bethlehem so the Holy Bible said
Mary's Boy Child Jesus Christ was born on Christmas Day

Gospel of St. Luke (KJV)

7And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
8And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
9And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
10And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
11For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
12And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
13And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
14Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
15And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us.
16And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger.
17And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child.
18And all they that heard it wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds.
19But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart. 20And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them.

PassthePeace1 · Mar 19, 2007

Jesus is the only Redeemer, by nature ....meaning He was the only one that could meet the qualifications of a redeemer, and restore man's relationship with God.

We one the other hand, are co-redeemers, by grace ...it is only thru the Grace of God, that Christ merited for us on the Cross, that we are able to meet the qualifications of being co-redeemers, when we co-operate with God, to preform our duties in the common priesthood.

To try and to do works outside of God's grace, would just be empty works....but when a Christian, filled with God's grace, is co-operating with God, it is not empty works, but God's own work, working thru us, in building up the Kingdom of God.

So the title for Mary, as Co-Redemptrix, is not elavating Mary to be equal with Jesus...because He's title of Redeemer, is of a different genera, than Mary's.

One is the source of Grace, and is Grace by nature...Jesus, that redeemed mankind. The other is the recipient of that Grace,...Mary and us, that co-operates with the grace, to do good works.

lionroar0 · Mar 19, 2007

and you assert that being "full" of Grace leaves no room for sin, correct?

What about being full of the HS?

HS=Holy Spirit?

Peace

Benedicta00 · Mar 19, 2007

Uphill Battle said:
Benedicta00 said:

and you assert that being "full" of Grace leaves no room for sin, correct?

What about being full of the HS?

Click to expand...

what about it? Are you referring to St Elizabeth ad St. John the baptist?

We do believe they were sanctified at Mary's visit because Mary brought them in contact with Christ and God choose them to manifest this miracle of the incarnation to Mary.

Elizabeth and John the baptist was Mary's proof from God... Read Luke over again if you never caught that before.

.

lionroar0 · Mar 19, 2007

Originally Posted by Rick Otto

Mary was no different in that respect.

and we whole heartily agree. .

IC.

Peace

Benedicta00 · Mar 19, 2007

PassthePeace1 said:
Jesus is the only Redeemer, by nature ....meaning He was the only one that could meet the qualifications of a redeemer, and restore man's relationship with God.

We one the other hand, are co-redeemers, by grace ...it is only thru the Grace of God, that Christ merited for us on the Cross, that we are able to meet the qualifications of being co-redeemers, when we co-operate with God, to preform our duties in the common priesthood.

To try and to do works outside of God's grace, would just be empty works....but when a Christian, filled with God's grace, is co-operating with God, it is not empty works, but God's own work, working thru us, in building up the Kingdom of God.

So the title for Mary, as Co-Redemptrix, is not elavating Mary to be equal with Jesus...because He's title of Redeemer, is of a different genera, than Mary's.

One is the source of Grace, and is Grace by nature...Jesus, that redeemed mankind. The other is the recipient of that Grace,...Mary and us, that co-operates with the grace, to do good works.

and one would think this explains it.

.

Rick Otto · Mar 19, 2007

is extruding Mary above & beyond us all, or even just Stephen, who was also "full of grace" (Latin Vulgate Version), and HE doesn't get an Immaculate Conception out of the deal.

PassthePeace1 · Mar 19, 2007

Rick Otto said:
is extruding Mary above & beyond us all, or even just Stephen, who was also "full of grace" (Latin Vulgate Version), and HE doesn't get an Immaculate Conception out of the deal.

That's because he recieved God's grace, after the Passion of Christ, but Mary recieved God's grace at conception.

Benedicta00 · Mar 19, 2007

Rick Otto said:
is extruding Mary above & beyond us all, or even just Stephen, who was also "full of grace" (Latin Vulgate Version), and HE doesn't get an Immaculate Conception out of the deal.

By golly you just might be getting it now... No he doesn't get that out the deal. No one does but Mary

but he was still filled with grace none the less. None of us humans will have the same recognition as Mary but that is not to say we aren't recognized. .

sunlover1 · Mar 19, 2007

Jesus redeemed us by His blood.
There is no way anyone can/could help,,
There just is no way that any could
team up with Him on this.

There can be no co-redeemer(s).

Colossians 1:14
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Ephesians 1:7
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood,
the forgiveness of sins,
according to the riches of his grace;

Hebrews 9:22
...and without shedding of blood is no remission.

No other way.
No one helped Him redeem us.

Benedicta00 · Mar 19, 2007

sunlover1 said:
Jesus redeemed us by His blood.
There is no way anyone can/could help,,
There just is no way that any could
team up with Him on this.

There can be no co-redeemer(s).

Colossians 1:14
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Ephesians 1:7
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood,
the forgiveness of sins,
according to the riches of his grace;

Hebrews 9:22
...and without shedding of blood is no remission.

No other way.
No one helped Him redeem us.

Not in a direct way no, but did the birth of Jesus help or not?

simonthezealot · Mar 19, 2007

Benedicta00 said:
http://nuclearworldaction.com/target.html

Not in a direct way no, but did the birth of Jesus help or not?

Did Mary create Jesus? in your opinion?

Benedicta00 · Mar 19, 2007

simonthezealot said:
Did Mary create Jesus? in your opinion?

Nope.

Now, was Jesus Lord at his birth or what? .

simonthezealot · Mar 19, 2007

Benedicta00 said:
Nope.

Now, was Jesus Lord at his birth or what? .

Sure was!
In fact before the world!

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