Christs second coming

shilohsfoal said:

No.The body ofChrist is not bringing forth the fruit planted in the kingdom where the pharisees once lived.
Do you understand what kingdom is promised to christ?

Click to expand...

As written, we (ekklesia only), might plant or water, but it is (only) Yahweh(the Creator) Who Gives (any) Growth. (anywhere)

shilohsfoal said:

No.The body ofChrist is not bringing forth the fruit planted in the kingdom where the pharisees once lived.

Click to expand...

Any one who is in Christ brings forth fruit regardless of where they live. Anyone who is in Christ inherits the true vineyard

Both the New Jerusalem and body of Christ are the bride of Jesus
Revelation 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband
Ephesians 5:31-32 “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church

Both the New Jerusalem and body of Christ are the dwelling place of God
Revelation 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling placea of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people,b and God himself will be with them as their God.
Ephesians 2:22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God bye the Spirit.

Both the New Jerusalem and body of Christ are built on the foundation of the apostles
Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Ephesians 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone

The slave woman was cast out in 70 ad and sons of the free woman inherited
Galatians 4:30 But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.”

Who is the slave woman? Old covenant earthly jeruslam and those who belong to it
Galatians 4:24-25 Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia;e she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.


Who are the sons of the free woman? those in the new covenant of the heavenly Jerusalem
Galatians 4:26 But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.

shilohsfoal said:

Do you understand what kingdom is promised to christ?

Click to expand...

I do. he is the heir of all things
Hebrews 1:2 2But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe.

And if you are in Christ then you are an heir as well.
Galatians 3:25 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.

mkgal1 said:

My jaw actually fell open while reading "the body of Christ is NOT bringing forth the fruit planted in the kingdom".....

Click to expand...

same here

shilohsfoal said:

The kingdom promised to Christ is the promised land.It always was.

Click to expand...

I disagree.

The physical land that was promised to the Israelites is Old Covenant (I believe).....but the kingdom of God is about "the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God" as is states in Rev 21.

The "kingdom of God" is where God's will is being done (it's not a place).

shilohsfoal said:

Galatians 3:16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say, "and to seeds," meaning many, but "and to your seed," meaning One, who is Christ.

Click to expand...

I can agree with your interpretation here.

shilohsfoal said:

But for the time being,those in christ in that kingdom are persecuted and killed and shall continue to get worse untill christ comes.

Click to expand...

Here.....I disagree. The persecution that's spoken of was in the first century (the people that Jesus was speaking to experienced it) Context is everything:

The kingdom promised to Christ is the promised land.It always was.

Click to expand...

The Promised Land didn't come into the picture until the Israelites were freed from Egypt (in Moses' time). So....."not always".

The covenant that God made with Abraham was (as far as I know) roughly 600 years BEFORE the covenant made with Moses and the Israelites after they were freed from Egypt - and AFTER they had formed the golden calf (and that covenant had an end - it was only for a specific time period).

http://www.cmdeaf.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Bible_Timeline_Covenants.pdf

shilohsfoal said:

Christians are being persecuted and killed in the promised land today.

Click to expand...

True. But that doesn't mean this is all NOT referring to a specific period of time (which was the first century).

What was "promised" that relates to us is His Kingdom. The "Promised land" of Moses (I believe) has passed.

Humanity has free will. Until all of humanity has "put on their new selves" or become more like Christ (IOW....until people grow up spiritually) we will continue to have strife. People in churches also hurt one another (and - to narrow it even more - people in Christian marriages hurt one another).....so it's not just about "the persecuted church" today. It's sin that you're pointing out.

Remember the Samaritan woman at the well? Jesus explained to her about His kingdom.

So......shilohsfoal .....how (in your mind) does the body of Christ play into all that you believe about the Kingdom of God? You seem to be limiting His kingdom to a physical place on the map (and certain people within those borders) - so where does that leave the rest of of that *don't* reside there? Are we not "in the Kingdom of God" ( to your mind)?

By the way.....what would we call this - when Jesus appeared to Saul on the road to Damascus (after His death, resurrection, and ascension)? What numbered "coming" is this? Or - do we just dismiss it as any "coming" at all?


Paul begins Galatians by saying that he was sent by Christ and the Father, and that the other church leaders agreed with him. In Galatians 1:11–2:10, he expands on these two points.
He begins in verses 11 and 12 by saying that the Gospel he preached was not devised by human wisdom, nor had he received it from the other apostles; rather, he was taught it directly by Jesus Christ Himself. He continues by reminding them that he had been trained in and was fanatically devoted to the erroneous traditions of Judaism. When God called Paul on the Damascus road, he was commissioned to preach the Gospel of Christ. ~ Ligonier Ministries

shilohsfoal said:

So you believe the pharisees were doing Gods will because they assuredly dwelt in the kingdom of God.Jesus said so.

Click to expand...

YOU were the one making this about physical land (not me).

shilohsfoal said:

But lets be clear.The only thing taken from the pharisees was the land they dwelt upon.Many pharisees continued to practice judaism after they were expelled fromthe kingdom.

Click to expand...

What was taken from the Pharisees was the power they had by being in control of the temple. Jesus is now the high priest.

No one practices Mosaic/Old covenant judaism (not after the temple was destroyed in 70 AD).

shilohsfoal said:

There seems to be a few on this board who believe Christ has come.
Can anyone provide an eye witness account of this event?
It does not appear biblical for there are no eye witness accounts in the bible.

Click to expand...

They would be full Preterist's and that is a rare position to be in. What you may be referring to is the understanding of the "Olivet Discourse" and parts of Revelation. Partial Preterist's , in contrary to Dispensationalist's, believe most of the apocalyptic language in both books describes the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem. There is a good argument for this. Do more research on the subject.

shilohsfoal said:

So you believe the pharisees were doing Gods will because they assuredly dwelt in the kingdom of God.Jesus said so.

Click to expand...

YOU were the one making this about physical land (not me).

shilohsfoal said:

But lets be clear.The only thing taken from the pharisees was the land they dwelt upon.Many pharisees continued to practice judaism after they were expelled fromthe kingdom.

Click to expand...

What was taken from the Pharisees was the power they had by being the high priests. Jesus is now the high priest.

No one practices Mosaic/Old covenant judaism (not after the temple was destroyed in 70 AD).

shilohsfoal said:

You believe the children of Satan were high priests?Who were they priests of do tell?

Click to expand...

What are you talking about?

Maria Billingsley said:

What you may be referring to is the understanding of the "Olivet Discourse" and parts of Revelation. Partial Preterist's , in contrary to Dispensationalist's, believe most of the apocalyptic language in both books describes the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem. There is a good argument for this. Do more research on the subject.

Click to expand...

shilohsfoal said:

Who were they priests of do tell?

Click to expand...

I probably shouldn't be doing your work for you - but here's a start:





4

The Old Covenant Priesthood Foreshadows the Priesthood of the New Covenant



If an Israelite high priest were to come into the fellowship of a Christian
group today, dressed in his linen tunic, ephod, breastplate, turban, and Urim
and Thummim, he would certainly create quite a stir. When one reads Exodus and Leviticus,
it can be a daunting task to try to relate to all the ceremony, regulations,
special clothing, different orders associated with the Jewish priesthood. If one will
bear in mind that in all this, God had a plan to reveal his plan for the ministry
of Jesus Christ and his church, this confusing array of information which we
cannot really relate to will begin to make sense. In trying to understand the Old
Covenant priesthood and the foreshadows in all these regulations, we will find
further evidence to support the claim that the theme of the Old Testament is
The Messiah is coming, bringing salvation.

Under the Old Covenant, the tabernacle and the temple would not have counted
for much without priests to serve there. Who were the priests? What did they do, and what,
specifically does all this foreshadow in the New Testament? That is the subject of this
chapter.



THE PRIESTHOOD



First, we will need a primer on the Jewish priesthood. Sometimes the priesthood in the
Mosaic Law is called the levitical priesthood. This is somewhat of a misnomer. All priests were
Levites, but not all Levites were priests. The Levites were the sons of Levi, one of
the twelve sons of Israel. God designated the Levites to serve at the tabernacle
and the temple. The Levites were, in a sense, the tithe of God's people devoted
to the ministry of God. However, only a small portion of the Levites were actually designated priests. The LORD said to Moses, "Speak to the priests, the sons of Aaron" (Leviticus 21:1). Only the sons of Aaron were accepted as priests to actually serve in the sanctuary, making sacrifices, keeping the lamp lit, replacing the bread and so forth.

The rest of the Levites were designated for such tasks as moving the tabernacle,
singing at the temple and so forth. Their fellow Levites were assigned to all the
other duties of the tabernacle, the house of God. But Aaron and his descendants
were the ones who presented offerings on the altar of burnt offering and on
the altar of incense in connection with all that was done in the Most Holy Place,
making atonement for Israel, in accordance with all that Moses the servant of God had commanded. (1 Chronicles 6:48,49).

There were many special regulations in the Law of Moses requiring the sons of
Aaron, the priests, to keep ceremonially clean. They could not touch a dead body, shave their head or marry women who had formerly been prostitutes and so forth. They must be holy to their God and must not profane the name of their God. Because they present the offerings made to the LORD by fire, the food of theirGod, they are to be holy. (Leviticus 21:6). No son of Aaron with any physical deformity was allowed to serve in the sanctuary. To us, this might seem a bit prejudiced against the physically disabled, but all these restrictions have meaning in the antitype to the priesthood in the New Testament. The point of all these restrictions was so that priests would be more "holy" than the other Israelites. The word holy in the Hebrew means one specially designated, set apart, or pure. This will have great significance in the antitype to the priesthood in the New Testament.

Amongst the priests, there was one specially designated as high priest. The office of high priest was of great significance to the entire system of Law instituted by God through Moses. The High Priest, obviously, had to be a descendant of Aaron. In fact, Aaron was the first high priest. The high priest was designated so by anointing with oil. There were even more stringent rules for holiness for the high priest than for the other sons of Aaron. ~ The Old Covenant Priesthood Prefigures the Priethood in the New Covenant | Evidence for Christianity