Christians - what if you're wrong?

Akureyri · Nov 3, 2013

I'm often asked to consider what if I'm wrong. What if I'm wrong and I end up going to hell and suffer for eternity. Christians have presented Pascal's Wager to me in an apparent attempt to keep me from suffering for eternity in hell. But it's a two way street:

What if those who hold belief in the Christian God go to a hell of eternal punishment and suffering, while rational non-believers go to an eternal paradise full of love and happiness.

Have you ever considered this?

Sedoy · Nov 3, 2013

I cannot be wrong. I know where I am going because I have been there. Not to brag, it was simply an incredible experience given by God to one least deserving of that but I have been to Heaven. Literally stood there in the presence of God Himself. Looked around, got questions answered and then sent back. Back for now until that time when I get to go there and stay there. (Please do not make me die from laughter by saying that I, somehow, imagined all that. What I saw cannot be imagined, it cannot even be described in human terms and language.)

It does not have to be that particular kind of experience but you can truly experience God in absolutely profound and absolutely undeniable way. God Himself, The Creator of the universe and everything in it can be experienced on totally personal level! The incredible truth of that is hard to grasp but it is real. God is outside of time itself so He has time for personal relationship with EVERYBODY!

I am nobody special in any kind of way. Just a working guy with family, mortgage and bills to pay. I simply asked God to be Enoch, walk with God and He answered my prayers. Some walks with God I had! I wish I cold tell you how incredibly awesome God is but words cannot describe Him!

For so many years I had so many questions about my life and everything in it. Why this happened to me…. why that did not happen…? I do not have any questions anymore. Everything makes cense now! Everything!

I did not come to God because I was seeking God. I came to God by running away from Him. I was meddling in some occultist stuff without even thinking that it was real. When I experienced undeniable reality of evil I realized that I am on the wrong side. Not the side I wanted to be on. When I saw that evil is undeniable I realized that God must be real too. I was tough going at times but by the miracle of God I am now on the right side.

cerette · Nov 3, 2013

I haven't considered the specific question you posted, but I have considered thoughts like "What if Christianity is not real" and "What if there is nothing after death" and "What if I end up in hell".

However, together with Job and all other believers I can say: "I know that my Redeemer lives." So I am not afraid.

What kind of support are you looking for with this struggle?

Sedoy · Nov 3, 2013

cerette said:
What kind of support are you looking for with this struggle?

Not the kind you can offer.

I have been reading many of his replies. While he is saying that he is looking for God he is only looking for proof that there is no God. He is lying to himself and others but only fooling himself.

All topics go in the same way:

He asks the question.

He gets answers from multiple people.

Then he says: No this is not an answer

He asks same question again.

It goes on until people give up trying to talk to him.

At which point he declares to himself See I am the only one who is right

There is no point in having conversation with him because it is not possible to have an intelligent conversation. He is here on some kind of ego tickling, mind gaming trip and proving his own divinity since he is the only one who knows what an answer to his question is and which answer is the only right one.

bling · Nov 4, 2013

Akureyri said:
I'm often asked to consider what if I'm wrong. What if I'm wrong and I end up going to hell and suffer for eternity. Christians have presented Pascal's Wager to me in an apparent attempt to keep me from suffering for eternity in hell. But it's a two way street:

What if those who hold belief in the Christian God go to a hell of eternal punishment and suffering, while rational non-believers go to an eternal paradise full of love and happiness.

Have you ever considered this?

Unselfish sacrificial unconditional type Love is perceived as: crazy, weird, unbelievable, strange and inhuman, but it is also preferred over selfishness, glory seeking, cruel, un-concerning, vengeful and hurtful type behavior, so which would the Creator of the universe that created us to reason the way we do reason have, since God could have either? An eternal God would reach the greatest of any state he wished, so which is the more likely?

What would an all-powerful God get out of playing this game with His creation?

Everything that has or is happening fits an all-powerful and all Loving God just wanting to gift his creation with the greatest gifts possible without forcing them to accept something they do not want.

Sketcher · Nov 4, 2013

Akureyri said:
What if those who hold belief in the Christian God go to a hell of eternal punishment and suffering, while rational non-believers go to an eternal paradise full of love and happiness.

Rational non-believers of which sort? Non-belief is a pretty big tent.

abysmul · Nov 4, 2013

Akureyri said:
Christians - what if you're wrong?

I'm not.

PrayerandPeace · Nov 4, 2013

What if those who hold belief in the Christian God go to a hell of eternal punishment and suffering, while rational non-believers go to an eternal paradise full of love and happiness.

you wish.

Hishandmaiden · Nov 5, 2013

Even if I am wrong with my belief and ended up in hell for my belief, I had no regret.
For in the years that I had been a christian, God had been very good to me. He had blessed me with love, good food, good family and many things. I have a wonderful relationship with Him. I enjoy being a christian, and will not want my belief to change in any way. Being a christian allowed me to love the people better, and being in God's love makes me a happy person. So for my present life, whenever I sense the presence of God, I am happy. I will not change my belief even if I do not make it to heaven, because it is the present moment that matters to me. So, if I am wrong and will end up in hell for my belief, I am still happy, serving God in the now, in the present moment.

Akureyri · Nov 5, 2013

Sedoy said:
I cannot be wrong. I know where I am going because I have been there. Not to brag, it was simply an incredible experience given by God to one least deserving of that but I have been to Heaven. Literally stood there in the presence of God Himself. Looked around, got questions answered and then sent back. Back for now until that time when I get to go there and stay there. (Please do not make me die from laughter by saying that I, somehow, imagined all that. What I saw cannot be imagined, it cannot even be described in human terms and language.)

It does not have to be that particular kind of experience but you can truly experience God in absolutely profound and absolutely undeniable way. God Himself, The Creator of the universe and everything in it can be experienced on totally personal level! The incredible truth of that is hard to grasp but it is real. God is outside of time itself so He has time for personal relationship with EVERYBODY!

I am nobody special in any kind of way. Just a working guy with family, mortgage and bills to pay. I simply asked God to be Enoch, walk with God and He answered my prayers. Some walks with God I had! I wish I cold tell you how incredibly awesome God is but words cannot describe Him!

For so many years I had so many questions about my life and everything in it. Why this happened to me. why that did not happen? I do not have any questions anymore. Everything makes cense now! Everything!

I did not come to God because I was seeking God. I came to God by running away from Him. I was meddling in some occultist stuff without even thinking that it was real. When I experienced undeniable reality of evil I realized that I am on the wrong side. Not the side I wanted to be on. When I saw that evil is undeniable I realized that God must be real too. I was tough going at times but by the miracle of God I am now on the right side.

You say you cannot be wrong. Just how do you know this?

You are still living. You might think now that you're right. But what if after you die, you find out you're wrong - and you end up suffering for eternity in a fiery pit of hell?

You say you have been there. What/where is "there"?

What real thing in the universe is it you're calling God?

Akureyri · Nov 5, 2013

cerette said:
I haven't considered the specific question you posted, but I have considered thoughts like "What if Christianity is not real" and "What if there is nothing after death" and "What if I end up in hell".

However, together with Job and all other believers I can say: "I know that my Redeemer lives." So I am not afraid.

What kind of support are you looking for with this struggle?

How do you know that what is written in Job is correct and/or true? Who wrote Job? What was the credibility of this person? Did this person have any ulterior motives?

Akureyri · Nov 5, 2013

abysmul said:
I'm not.

How would you know you're not wrong?

Akureyri · Nov 5, 2013

bling said:
Unselfish sacrificial unconditional type Love is perceived as: crazy, weird, unbelievable, strange and inhuman, but it is also preferred over selfishness, glory seeking, cruel, un-concerning, vengeful and hurtful type behavior, so which would the Creator of the universe that created us to reason the way we do reason have, since God could have either? An eternal God would reach the greatest of any state he wished, so which is the more likely?

What would an all-powerful God get out of playing this game with His creation?

Everything that has or is happening fits an all-powerful and all Loving God just wanting to gift his creation with the greatest gifts possible without forcing them to accept something they do not want.

Do you realize to the skeptic, that sounds like a rationalization for the fear of death written all over it. What can you say to convince me that it isn't merely a rationalization of that type?

Akureyri · Nov 5, 2013

Sketcher said:
Rational non-believers of which sort? Non-belief is a pretty big tent.

A pretty big tent? The millions of babies in this world are in a position of non-belief. It would take a pretty big tent to hold all of them.

Akureyri · Nov 5, 2013

PrayerandPeace said:
you wish.

And you probably wish that you're right. But since you can't know you're right, what if you're wrong?

stevenfrancis · Nov 5, 2013

snipped

abysmul · Nov 5, 2013

Akureyri said:
How would you know you're not wrong?

God is glaringly obvious to me when I open my heart and mind and eyes and behold the marvel of His creation. Through His Word, and the Holy Spirit, I have built my faith on the rock of Jesus Christ.

I was lost, I was an unbeliever for a long time, but all that time it was glaringly obvious, I just had my eyes and my mind closed.

Akureyri · Nov 5, 2013

abysmul said:
God is glaringly obvious to me when I open my heart and mind and eyes and behold the marvel of His creation. Through His Word, and the Holy Spirit, I have built my faith on the rock of Jesus Christ.

I was lost, I was an unbeliever for a long time, but all that time it was glaringly obvious, I just had my eyes and my mind closed.

What real thing in this universe is it you're calling "God"?

bling · Nov 5, 2013

Akureyri said:
Do you realize to the skeptic, that sounds like a rationalization for the fear of death written all over it. What can you say to convince me that it isn't merely a rationalization of that type?

You are asking a what if question: God sends good people to hell and rewards bad people with heaven.

So what if God was this way and you were one of the bad people that went to heaven, how secure would you feel about your position in heaven, since this God has done nothing but lie up until then?

How would you like to be around a God that takes pleasure in torturing the innocent?

abysmul · Nov 5, 2013

Akureyri said:
What real thing in this universe is it you're calling "God"?

When I go to a craft show and see an intricate wood carving for sale, I do not doubt the existence of its creator. I've never looked them in they eye and shaken their hand, but they obviously are real.

When I look at and ponder the marvel that is our universe, I also do not doubt its creator. Through the truth revealed in scripture, through prayer, and through accepting what is obvious to me, I've grown to know our Creator, guided by his Holy Spirit, and through his Son.

Christians - what if you're wrong?

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