choices and fate

myquestions · Mar 14, 2006

what is your definition of fate???

is fate that we choose our own decisions and those choices we ultimately make was meant to be?? ie: fate.

God Child · Mar 14, 2006

the inevitable principle or determining cause or will by which things in general are believed to come to be as they are or events to happen as they do .

levi501 · Mar 14, 2006

inescapable predetermination

elman · Mar 14, 2006

levi501 said:
inescapable predetermination

I agree and I don't believe in it.

levi501 · Mar 14, 2006

elman said:
I agree and I don't believe in it.

you don't believe in an omniscient god now?

elman · Mar 14, 2006

levi501 said:
you don't believe in an omniscient god now?

I think we have been through this. An omniscient God does not mean everything is caused to happen by that God. He may know you will be unloving, but it is you that are unloving and not Him.

Eudaimonist · Mar 14, 2006

myquestions said:
what is your definition of fate???

is fate that we choose our own decisions and those choices we ultimately make was meant to be?? ie: fate.

I have a peculiar definition of fate. It has nothing to do with predestination.

I see one's fate, or personal destiny, as the fulfillment of one's unique potentials -- i.e. the development of one's various talents. For example, it was Michelangelo's fate to become a great artist of some sort due to his immense talent for art.

However, I don't think one's personal destiny will necessarily be fulfilled. If Michelangelo had chosen a non-artistic career instead, he would not have reached his fate. One's fate can be avoided, or a fatal flaw may carry you to an unfortunate fate, though hopefully this can be avoided.

I see the goal of life as a journey to one's fate.

levi501 · Mar 14, 2006

elman said:
I think we have been through this. An omniscient God does not mean everything is caused to happen by that God. He may know you will be unloving, but it is you that are unloving and not Him.

Fate has nothing to do with determining cause.

elman · Mar 16, 2006

levi501 said:
Fate has nothing to do with determining cause.

If I am the determining cause then it is I and not fate that caused whatever.

levi501 · Mar 16, 2006

elman said:
If I am the determining cause then it is I and not fate that caused whatever.

how does this address what you quoted.
Besides you're never the determining cause.

elman · Mar 16, 2006

levi501 said:
how does this address what you quoted.
Besides you're never the determining cause.

Really? What evidence do you have that I am not the determining cause of this post?

Eudaimonist · Mar 17, 2006

levi501 said:
Besides you're never the determining cause.

This has never been proven by anyone. It's just an inference, it's not a default position, and it's debatable.

levi501 · Mar 21, 2006

elman said:
Really? What evidence do you have that I am not the determining cause of this post?

View just about any free will/determinism thread in this forum. You've had this answered before.

levi501 · Mar 21, 2006

Eudaimonist said:
This has never been proven by anyone. It's just an inference, it's not a default position, and it's debatable.

yah dude, whatever sits easier with you.

Eudaimonist · Mar 21, 2006

levi501 said:
yah dude, whatever sits easier with you.

It's not a question of what sits easier with me. Determinists tend to be smug without realizing that they are making assumptions about the nature of causality that may not be as firm as they think. In particular, they tend not to realize that agent-causation may be an alternative to the event-causation they assume in their arguments.

levi501 · Mar 21, 2006

Eudaimonist said:
In particular, they tend not to realize that agent-causation may be an alternative to the event-causation they assume in their arguments.

I don't understand the difference between the two. It sounds like an allowance for imperfect knowledge of something deterministic. Anything to link or can you explain the difference?

elman · Mar 21, 2006

levi501 said:
View just about any free will/determinism thread in this forum. You've had this answered before.

Not correct. It should be no problem for you to answer it again if it has been answered so much.

Soul_Searcher · Mar 21, 2006

hi MQ,

"what is your definition of fate???"

I define fate as an inevitable outcome of life.

"is fate that we choose our own decisions and those choices we ultimately make was meant to be??"

Not as I define it. I don't think we have a 'fate,' but we do have choices, and those choices take us down the rivers of life, for often one choice flows into another. But, thankfully, we are able to steer our own course, and can choose an entirely different life than the one we first set ourselves out on.

halfpastseven · Mar 21, 2006

myquestions said:
is fate that we choose our own decisions and those choices we ultimately make was meant to be?? ie: fate.

yes, pretty much
people determine their fate, although things can happen to go against what they might have felt should have been their destiny, like say someone left there house to go to work one day and got hit by a bus, they might not have thought anything like that would or should have happened, but after it happened they start trying to find some kind of explaination to why it happened and most of the time they cant, so they will say it must have just been my fate, it must have happen for some type of reason
thats whenthe thought of god comes into play, it depends on if someone thinks that god has a plan for their life or not, or if god is controling what happens to them in their life, and really if you believe that god controls your life or has a plan for it, then that goes against the statement of having free will, and thats when it gets real tricky

really im not to sure where i stand on this cause a part of me believes that fate is real but then again i dont like the thought that im not in control of my future, but fate just seems like a explaination for the unexplainable

levi501 · Mar 21, 2006

elman said:
Not correct. It should be no problem for you to answer it again if it has been answered so much.

no, but it's exhausting and fruitless.

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