Cerebral Cortex Activity

HRE said:

1. Humans are considered legally dead when cerebral cortex activity ceases -- that is, the brain flat-lines.

1.1. Thus, a human can be considered alive when cerebral cortex activity begins.

2. Cerebral cortex activity begins in the 22nd week of gestation.

2.1. Thus, before the 22nd week of gestation, the fetus is not alive -- by any type of definition.

2.2. Add a two week period for ethical safety.

2.2.1. Thus, a fetus can be ethically aborted with a margin of safety before the 20th week of pregnancy (the third trimester).

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Um..okay. I posted something similar in another thread, but here is the abbreviated version, mainly focusing on the brain.

Source: The Least of These by Curt Young

One of the first areas to advance in a developing baby (fetus) is the brain. By twenty days after conception the foundation for the entire nervous system (Including the brain..tada) is established. A heartbeat is detected by 18 days.

By the fifth week (35 days) the brain is developing, and the cerebral cortex can be seen (w/ technology of course) and the pituitary gland is forming. Internal organs are developing at full-steam

Brain waves are recorded as early as 40 days

By the sixth week all major organs are present and most are operational and congratulations to the baby, s/he is now a fetus instead of an embryo.

The third month: fingernails and toenails and hair follicles are forming, skin is very sensitive to touch.

The fourth month: More growth and development, and if you look at an ultrasound you can see the baby (fetus) sucking on his or her thumb.

The fifth and six months: If born as a preemie, s/he has a good chance of survival.

New research has found that the unborn baby can feel pain as young as 8 weeks! Below is what I found: (abortionfacts.com, its actually an online book)

"By this age (8 weeks) the neuro-anatomic structures are present. What is needed is (1) a sensory nerve to feel the pain and send a message to (2) the thalamus, a part of the base of the brain, and (3) motor nerves that send a message to that area. These are present at 8 weeks. The pain impulse goes to the thalamus. It sends a signal down the motor nerves to pull away from the hurt"


just think about it....

That's all I have to say for now.

gallykid08 said:

**dies laughing**

me too. im a good little overgrown cancer cell **puts on halo**

do cancer cells have a heartbeat? brain waves? able to feel pain? organs? cuz the ''fetus'' does. and did u know the word ''fetus'' is actually Latin for little one?

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The other thing is, the developing baby (fetus) expels itself after 9 months, and with a parasite or cancer cell there is medication or chemo, radiation, etc...

*shrugs* just something to think about. They (the fetus and a parasite) are not even in the same league. The fetus is also not a mass of overgrown cells, but rather is separate, a part of the mother and father with DNA, etc and all it needs to develop into a human being.

God doesnt intend people to go to hell...thats where Jesus comes in.

anyway, sin isnt really God's intention either. there's someone called the devil to ya know.

the way i see it, abortion kills a living being. its not a blob of tissue. and i agree with things that asler has been saying. i've done quite a bit of research, and it is true. unborn babies are human...whether they're wanted or not.

i find it amazing how people can rejoice when someone is pregnant with a baby...then say how its just a blob of tissue the next.

being wanted or unwanted doesnt determine if a unborn child is human or not.

pregnancy isnt a disease or illness

just my thoughts...and maybe those with open minds will consider them.

In order for a person to enter into heaven, they need to be "born again", whether that's water baptism or accepting Jesus Christ as your personal lord and savior, etc... Once that person is "born again", they can enjoy all the joys of "new life" (i.e. Heaven).



Until a baby or fetus or embryo or whatever you want to call it is "born", they cannot enjoy the benefits of "life", such as a future or rights or anything of the sort.



The unsaved are damned to hell until they are born again.

Babies can be sucked out and flushed down until they are born.



And I hope that all of you who protest abortion also protest wars and authorized use of lethal force by officers. When a human being becomes an encumbrance to us, we should be able to wipe him/her/them/it out without being pestered about it.

gallykid08 said:

God doesnt intend people to go to hell...thats where Jesus comes in.

anyway, sin isnt really God's intention either. there's someone called the devil to ya know.

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Of course God intends for people to go to hell.



I think we're all agreed as to the awesome power of God.



How could a supreme being like that, with foresight, create Lucifer, and human beings and sin, (Yes, God created sin. He created everything. He defined what sin was as well. Our ability to sin was inborn, created by God), and not intend for people to go to hell? He must have known! He's either less capable than we all think or he fully intended for some people, a LOT of people, to go to Hell. And for those of you who say hell was created for the devil, let me say this. I'm sure Hell is big enough to fit all of us and more! I doubt God created all that room for Lucifer to feel comfortable. He's got room for us all down there. Custom made for each one of us sinful *******s who dare to turn away from him. That shows some intent!

hartmanpeter said:

In order for a person to enter into heaven, they need to be "born again", whether that's water baptism or accepting Jesus Christ as your personal lord and savior, etc... Once that person is "born again", they can enjoy all the joys of "new life" (i.e. Heaven).



Until a baby or fetus or embryo or whatever you want to call it is "born", they cannot enjoy the benefits of "life", such as a future or rights or anything of the sort.



The unsaved are damned to hell until they are born again.

Babies can be sucked out and flushed down until they are born.



And I hope that all of you who protest abortion also protest wars and authorized use of lethal force by officers. When a human being becomes an encumbrance to us, we should be able to wipe him/her/them/it out without being pestered about it.

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Well, the fetus can't enjoy life until the fullest until they are born, that's why we need to give them the chance.

You say that you don't believe in God, but you're still enjoying life, right? (at least for now).

Actually, although your comparison is a decent one, it's kinda on a different plane. We choose to have life with God we are given a chance, but by aborting a unborn fetus who hasn't been given the chance at life at all that is rather unfair don't you think?

And about Lucifer....aka Satan. Hell was created for Lucifer and the rest of the fallen angels, and I can assure you they could fill up that space a plenty, but unfortutely with the fall of Lucifer followed by the temptation and fall of Adam and Eve sin entered the world.

God IS merciful and kind, otherwise he wouldn't have bothered trying to save the world through Jesus Christ, if he hadn't been merciful he would have just screwed our creation and left us here to rot.
We have to be perfect in order to enter Heaven, through Christ that is provided.
Can you believe in a God who sent himself in the flesh to suffer and die a gruesome death just for us? Who did that in order to open the passage that we can live a life with him? Would you want to believe in a God who wants to associate with humans like us?

Good thoughts though (although I don't necessarily like your language choice)

hartmanpeter said:

Of course God intends for people to go to hell.



I think we're already agreed as to the awesome power of God.



How could a supreme being like that, with foresight, create Lucifer, and human beings and sin, (Yes, God created sin. He created everything. He defined what sin was as well. Our ability to sin was inborn, created by God), and not intend for people to go to hell? He must have known! He's either less capable than we all think or he fully intend for some people, a LOT of people, to go to hell. And for those of you who say hell was created for the devil, let me say this. I'm sure Hell is big enough to fit all of us and more! I doubt God created all that room for Lucifer to feel comfortable. He's got room for us all down there. Custom made for each one of us sinful *******s who dare to turn away from him. That shows some intent!

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Lucifer was originally an angel...Gabriel. he and other angels rebelled and were cast out.

did God create him? yes. did God create him as the devil? no.

and its free will...we can choose to sin or not to sin. but satan tries to make people sin and turn against God so he can have them.

thats where the crud and bs in this world comes from.

about God's foresight...thats another issue as well. how much does God know? did he know adam and eve were going to sin? did he know that Gabriel wld rebel? did he know that this world would become sinful?

not sure

complex issue

ASLER86 said:

Well, the fetus can't enjoy life until the fullest until they are born, that's why we need to give them the chance.

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Why do we need to give them a chance? What responsibility to we have to do that? What about giving the 16 year old pregnant mother a chance at a normal life?

ASLER86 said:

You say that you don't believe in God, but you're still enjoying life, right? (at least for now).

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I’m sorry, I might have gotten myself lost in everything I’m reading. What was the reason for this question? Yea, I don’t believe in God as described in the Bible, the Christian God. Life, so far, has awarded me a 50% agreeable/disagreeable ratio.

ASLER86 said:

Actually, although your comparison is a decent one, it's kinda on a different plane. We choose to have life with God we are given a chance, but by aborting a unborn fetus who hasn't been given the chance at life at all that is rather unfair don't you think?

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A chance at a life with God and a chance at life on earth are two different things. There is no one who can stop you from choosing a life with God.

There are numerous people who can stop you from having a life on earth. Abortionist, Police, Government, Psychopaths, Serial Killers, Terrorist, The Draft, Contraceptive, and Horseback riding (I won’t explain this one unless asked.) etc… We can’t object to one and not the others if the argument used is “giving it a chance at life”. Yes, by aborting a fetus, we haven’t given them a chance at life. What I’m saying is, it’s not our responsibility to give them a chance at life. We’re not “suppose to”.

ASLER86 said:

And about Lucifer....aka Satan. Hell was created for Lucifer and the rest of the fallen angels, and I can assure you they could fill up that space a plenty, but unfortunately with the fall of Lucifer followed by the temptation and fall of Adam and Eve sin entered the world.

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It’s silly to say that, “unfortunately […] sin entered the world”.

Unfortunate, according to Webster, means: By bad luck

Luck, according to Webster once again, means: An unknown and unpredictable phenomenon that causes an event to result one way rather than another



Hmm… unknown and unpredictable.

ASLER86 said:

God IS merciful and kind, otherwise he wouldn't have bothered trying to save the world through Jesus Christ, if he hadn't been merciful he would have just screwed our creation and left us here to rot.

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ASLER86 said:

We have to be perfect in order to enter Heaven, through Christ that is provided.

Can you believe in a God who sent himself in the flesh to suffer and die a gruesome death just for us? Who did that in order to open the passage that we can live a life with him? Would you want to believe in a God who wants to associate with humans like us?

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Although I wasn’t disputing God’s mercy or kindness, I will address it.



The fact that God allowed all this to happen, knowing full well that He (or his son for those who believe in the trinity) would have to suffer and die, impresses on me that He must be a sadistic and egotistical entity. (I know, I know. You guys don’t want to read this. It’s mean. It’s disrespectful. Trust me when I say that I spew these words with sadness in my heart and that a small part of me would be glad if the Lord would smite me so I would at least know he exist and manages to listen to me.)

ASLER86 said:

Good thoughts though (although I don't necessarily like your language choice)

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I apologize for the language. I allowed myself to use it because it reflected what I was feeling. I did, however, try to use the least offensive offensive word ( the least offensive...offensive...word...yea, that's it) I could think of at the time.



ASLER86 Rocks!! Give her blessings and reputation! She deserves it!

gallykid08 said:

Lucifer was originally an angel...Gabriel. he and other angels rebelled and were cast out.

did God create him? yes. did God create him as the devil? no.

and its free will...we can choose to sin or not to sin. but satan tries to make people sin and turn against God so he can have them.

thats where the crud and bs in this world comes from.

about God's foresight...thats another issue as well. how much does God know? did he know adam and eve were going to sin? did he know that Gabriel wld rebel? did he know that this world would become sinful?

not sure

complex issue

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Wow.

Well...um...let's see...

Lucifer has always been Lucifer and will never cease being Lucifer (barring any unforseen circumstance.)

Gabriel is another angel who will always be Gabriel (barring any unforseen...whatever)

Did God create him as the Devil? Well what do you think the Devil is? Or means?

The word devil is derived from the Greek word diabolos ("to slander"),
At the same time, the term devil is also derived from the same Indo-European root word for deva, which roughly translates as "angel."

Did God create a slanderous angel? Well...yea...he did.

And yes, we can choose to sin or not sin. But you forget that from the very beginning of our lives, even in the womb as a fetus , , we are filthy sinners. Actually, no...wait...we are "born" sinners. We come into the world that way. If all men are sinners, and the fetus is not, then the fetus shouldn't even be considered human yet. (I'm just messing around, but it was interesting to think about for a second there... )

Anyway...yea, Lucifer does try to make us sin but not so that he can "have" us. He just doesn't want us with God.

As for the forsight thing, I didn't take the time to see if you were Christian or whatnot but if you don't believe your God is all powerful and all knowing, you got problems coming your way...

hartmanpeter said:

Why do we need to give them a chance? What responsibility to we have to do that? What about giving the 16 year old pregnant mother a chance at a normal life?

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okay, I know you don't want to hear it because you don't believe in God and therefore don't believe in the Bible, but I'm gonna read it anyway so you know where I stand (drumroll please, lol)

We are responsible to care for our children, both the unborn and the born as they are the next generation (just my feelings)

Psalm 139:13-16 (a Psalm by King David)
"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;your works are wonderful, I know that full well."

Job 31:15 "Did not He who made me in the womb make them? [refering to Job's friends/opposers] Did not the same One form us both within out mothers?"
Have you ever read the story of Job? Job had everything bad imaginable happen to Him, yet he still maintained is faith in God and God blessed Him for it.

And one of my favorites (for more than just abortion):
Proverbs 31:8 "Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are poor and destitute."

There are alot more too, but I didn't want to overwhelm anybody.

Does the young mother deserve a life? Yes, of course, I can't disagree with that. I just believe that there is a better way other than getting an abortion...like adoption.

A chance at a life with God and a chance at life on earth are two different things. There is no one who can stop you from choosing a life with God.

Click to expand...

There are numerous people who can stop you from having a life on earth. Abortionist, Police, Government, Psychopaths, Serial Killers, Terrorist, The Draft, Contraceptive, and Horseback riding (I won’t explain this one unless asked.) etc… We can’t object to one and not the others if the argument used is “giving it a chance at life”. Yes, by aborting a fetus, we haven’t given them a chance at life. What I’m saying is, it’s not our responsibility to give them a chance at life. We’re not “suppose to”.

Although I wasn’t disputing God’s mercy or kindness, I will address it.



The fact that God allowed all this to happen, knowing full well that He (or his son for those who believe in the trinity) would have to suffer and die, impresses on me that He must be a sadistic and egotistical entity. (I know, I know. You guys don’t want to read this. It’s mean. It’s disrespectful. Trust me when I say that I spew these words with sadness in my heart and that a small part of me would be glad if the Lord would smite me so I would at least know he exist and manages to listen to me.)

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On the topic of us "supposed to" take care of the unborn, I discussed that above.

Hard "truth" (note the quotations because I disagree).

He is not sadistic and egotistical, if He was egotistical He wouldn't have created us in the first place, instead he would have created the world for Himself, and if He was sadistic, we'd either all be dead or ALL of us would be in eternal torment as we speak.
If He was egotistical and sadistic He wouldn't have provided a way to salvation.

The fact is, the angel Lucifer fell from Heaven because (angels are intelligent too) Lucifer thought that He could become greater than God. Because of this, He and all of His followers were cast out of Heaven. Then when God created the world with Adam and Eve, Satan tempted them with lies and Adam and Eve fell. Because of this, they were cast out of the Garden of Eden and into the world, where sin and Lucifer (Satan) were. Hence, the topic of free will.

I apologize for the language. I allowed myself to use it because it reflected what I was feeling. I did, however, try to use the least offensive offensive word ( the least offensive...offensive...word...yea, that's it) I could think of at the time.

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That's okay.

ASLER86 Rocks!! Give her blessings and reputation! She deserves it!

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awww....shucks....*grin*

Same to hartman peter....he's very good at having an intelligent debate/conversation!!!
Blessings and reputation to you too!!

I just realized that this is like the longest post ever, so I am going to stop now *grin*