Catholic Teachings.... Backed by Scripture??

SwordoftheLord · Jul 6, 2014

So Myself, Foghorn, and GoingByzantine kind of derailed a post. So I started this one. The goal is for GoingByzantine to back up the following using Scripture. Not talking about something a Pope said, or a Priest, but among the Scriptures.

I appreciate GoingByzantine for taking the challenge

Here is my list:

Nuns
Purgatory
Assumption of Mary
Priests living in Celibacy
Latin Mass in a English RC church (when looking at 1 Cor. 14:19)
*Christmas (since I believe Dec. 25th is a Catholic invention, and it was originally outlawed in the USA)
Sprinking
Infant Baptism
Venial and Mortal Sins

I would love GoingByzantine to start with Nuns myself

*Also I understand that many Christians (both Catholic and Protestant) celebrate Christmas. While I do not, please understand I am not attacking Christmas, but I do not see December 25th being the birth of Christ in the Bible.From my studies the birth would be around Sept/Oct area. But I do believe the date (Dec. 25th) was put into place by the Catholics, and it is also the birthday of many pagan gods of the past. Although we must also note that Christmas was origionally outlawed in America, and that had something to do with the Catholics, since it was not allowed until the middle 1800s. more info can be found here: When Americans banned Christmas - The Week *

Foghorn · Jul 6, 2014

SwordoftheLord said:
So Myself, Foghorn, and GoingByzantine kind of derailed a post. So I started this one. The goal is for GoingByzantine to back up the following using Scripture. Not talking about something a Pope said, or a Priest, but among the Scriptures.

I appreciate GoingByzantine for taking the challenge

Here is my list:

Nuns
Purgatory
Assumption of Mary
Priests living in Celibacy
Latin Mass in a English RC church (when looking at 1 Cor. 14:19)
*Christmas (since I believe Dec. 25th is a Catholic invention, and it was originally outlawed in the USA)
Sprinking
Infant Baptism
Venial and Mortal Sins

I would love GoingByzantine to start with Nuns myself

*Also I understand that many Christians (both Catholic and Protestant) celebrate Christmas. While I do not, please understand I am not attacking Christmas, but I do not see December 25th being the birth of Christ in the Bible.From my studies the birth would be around Sept/Oct area. But I do believe the date (Dec. 25th) was put into place by the Catholics, and it is also the birthday of many pagan gods of the past. Although we must also note that Christmas was origionally outlawed in America, and that had something to do with the Catholics, since it was not allowed until the middle 1800s. more info can be found here: When Americans banned Christmas - The Week *

Just checking in.

Lady Bug · Jul 6, 2014

I don't see what is wrong with backing up doctrines from Scripture. I know that the hard copy of the Bible was obviously not in circulation and oral tradition was where it's at, but if the oral teachings did not show up in the written teachings later on, then I'd wonder why not. For me, the oral teachings should be the same as those that were put down in writing later.

catholichomeschooler · Jul 6, 2014

SwordoftheLord said:
So Myself, Foghorn, and GoingByzantine kind of derailed a post. So I started this one. The goal is for GoingByzantine to back up the following using Scripture. Not talking about something a Pope said, or a Priest, but among the Scriptures.

I appreciate GoingByzantine for taking the challenge

Here is my list:

Nuns
Purgatory
Assumption of Mary
Priests living in Celibacy
Latin Mass in a English RC church (when looking at 1 Cor. 14:19)
*Christmas (since I believe Dec. 25th is a Catholic invention, and it was originally outlawed in the USA)
Sprinking
Infant Baptism
Venial and Mortal Sins

I would love GoingByzantine to start with Nuns myself

*Also I understand that many Christians (both Catholic and Protestant) celebrate Christmas. While I do not, please understand I am not attacking Christmas, but I do not see December 25th being the birth of Christ in the Bible.From my studies the birth would be around Sept/Oct area. But I do believe the date (Dec. 25th) was put into place by the Catholics, and it is also the birthday of many pagan gods of the past. Although we must also note that Christmas was origionally outlawed in America, and that had something to do with the Catholics, since it was not allowed until the middle 1800s. more info can be found here: When Americans banned Christmas - The Week *

Let's go one at a time or this is going to take forever.

Your list exposes your ignorance of scripture. Sorry to have to break that to you.

Let's start with priestly celibacy.

There are married Catholic priests, but they are the exception, not the rule.

Here's why:

Matt 19:12
because some men are celibate from birth, while some are celibate because they have been made that way by others. Still others are celibate because they have made themselves that way for the sake of the kingdom from heaven. Let anyone accept this who can."

1 Cor 7
32I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lords affairshow he can please the Lord. 33But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this worldhow he can please his wife 34and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lords affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this worldhow she can please her husband. 35I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.

36If anyone is worried that he might not be acting honorably toward the virgin he is engaged to, and if his passions are too strongb and he feels he ought to marry, he should do as he wants. He is not sinning. They should get married. 37But the man who has settled the matter in his own mind, who is under no compulsion but has control over his own will, and who has made up his mind not to marry the virginthis man also does the right thing. 38So then, he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does not marry her does better.c

SwordoftheLord · Jul 6, 2014

catholichomeschooler said:
Let's go one at a time or this is going to take forever.

Your list exposes your ignorance of scripture. Sorry to have to break that to you.- what a way to start your post..and start with one of the subjects on the list that is easier than the others. why not start with Nuns like I asked GoingByzantine to?.

Let's start with priestly celibacy.

There are married Catholic priests, but they are the exception, not the rule.which ones are married??? or are you speaking about crossovers that were already married?

Here's why:

Matt 19:12
because some men are celibate from birth, while some are celibate because they have been made that way by others. Still others are celibate because they have made themselves that way for the sake of the kingdom from heaven. Let anyone accept this who can."-so where does this say a Priest has to be celibate???? Also did you read Matthew 19????? Because the context of this verse has nothing to do with Leadership of a church, priests, bishops, elders, etc......

1 Cor 7
32I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. 33But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— 34and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. 35I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.

36If anyone is worried that he might not be acting honorably toward the virgin he is engaged to, and if his passions are too strongb and he feels he ought to marry, he should do as he wants. He is not sinning. They should get married. 37But the man who has settled the matter in his own mind, who is under no compulsion but has control over his own will, and who has made up his mind not to marry the virgin—this man also does the right thing. 38So then, he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does not marry her does better.-still where does it say the Priest must be unmarried? Wasn' Peter Married? If so then why are Priests today unable to be married? Not saying that someone who is not married cannot serve the Lord, but the Bible says a Elder, Bishop must be the husband of one wife, and be able to have his house in order. How can a Priest prove this when he is single?c

I think I will wait on Going before I post any further as apparently you don't understand this topic as I can tell by your answers... You did not back up a Priest having to remain unmarried to be a Priest..Nice try though.. Foghorn any input to this reply?

Foghorn · Jul 6, 2014

Lady Bug said:
I don't see what is wrong with backing up doctrines from Scripture. I know that the hard copy of the Bible was obviously not in circulation and oral tradition was where it's at, but if the oral teachings did not show up in the written teachings later on, then I'd wonder why not. For me, the oral teachings should be the same as those that were put down in writing later.

Amen!

Not just for you but the whole body of Christ as well.

catholichomeschooler · Jul 6, 2014

SwordoftheLord said:
I think I will wait on Going before I post any further as apparently you don't understand this topic as I can tell by your answers... You did not back up a Priest having to remain unmarried to be a Priest..Nice try twisting though.

I backed it up with scripture. Both Jesus and Paul said that is preferable for those serving the Kingdom to be celibate.

That's the position of the Church.

One down.

Here's another:

Purgatory

1 Cor 3:15
13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each persons work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be savedeven though only as one escaping through the flames.

Matt 12:32
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

catholichomeschooler · Jul 6, 2014

Lady Bug said:
I don't see what is wrong with backing up doctrines from Scripture. I know that the hard copy of the Bible was obviously not in circulation and oral tradition was where it's at, but if the oral teachings did not show up in the written teachings later on, then I'd wonder why not. For me, the oral teachings should be the same as those that were put down in writing later.

The oral teachings also include the interpretations of scripture.

You see that among protestants there are many disagreements about the meaning of scripture. That's why there are so many different denominations.

Foghorn · Jul 6, 2014

catholichomeschooler said:
There are married Catholic priests, but they are the exception, not the rule.

Glad to see you admit that. Curious though why many popes and leaders have forbidden marriage especially in the dark ages?

SwordoftheLord · Jul 6, 2014

catholichomeschooler said:
I backed it up with scripture. Both Jesus and Paul said that is preferable for those serving the Kingdom to be celibate.

That's the position of the Church.

One down.

Here's another:

Purgatory

1 Cor 3:15
13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each persons work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be savedeven though only as one escaping through the flames.

Matt 12:32
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Maybe go back and read what I replied... Taking a verse out of Matthew 19 put of context is not backing up anything with Scripture sorry.And your verses above also.. I hope GoingByzantine does a better job than you do.

Foghorn · Jul 6, 2014

SwordoftheLord said:
I think I will wait on Going before I post any further as apparently you don't understand this topic as I can tell by your answers... You did not back up a Priest having to remain unmarried to be a Priest..Nice try though.. Foghorn any input to this reply?

I see the poster playing it safe. But I'll wait to post any more.

catholichomeschooler · Jul 6, 2014

Foghorn said:
Glad to see you admit that. Curious though why many popes and leaders have forbidden marriage especially in the dark ages?

Marriage has never been forbidden.

Your ignorance of Catholic teaching is being revealed.

SwordoftheLord · Jul 6, 2014

catholichomeschooler said:
Marriage has never been forbidden.

Your ignorance of Catholic teaching is being revealed.

and your posting in a thread with nonsense without a actual debate is funny to me. Especially when the post was intended for GoingByzantine to answer. But I like you trying, although I must admit your doing a poor job. Are you new to debating on forums?

GoingByzantine · Jul 6, 2014

Nuns, eh? Look no further than Matthew 19:21 (NKJV)

Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

Nuns are female monastics who shed material possessions, in favor of a simple life following the Lord. Most Nuns are also involved with charity work, often related to the poor. Following the example of what is written in Matthew.

Nuns do not want to be worldly, for those who love the World do not know God. Nuns follow the example found in 1 John 2:15-17 (NKJV)

15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. 17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

So nuns shun the world in favor of honoring the Lord, rather than honoring materialism. This is evident in their dress and their demeanor, they fully follow what is set out in 1 Timothy 2:9-15. That is what I have for now on nuns, if anyone else wants to chime in...please by all means. Catholics have a diverse range of interpretations, we believe the same core beliefs, but ultimately it would help to hear a range of Catholic interpretation on these issues.

GoingByzantine · Jul 6, 2014

It should be noted; I like most Catholics, recognize Unwritten Word as well as Written Word, but for now I will try to stick to what is written.

Foghorn · Jul 6, 2014

catholichomeschooler said:
Purgatory

1 Cor 3:15
13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each persons work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be savedeven though only as one escaping through the flames.

Nothing here to do with Purgatory. Your better off using 2 Macc 12:38-45, eventhough this don't work either. Ill explain this if you would like.

Matt 12:32
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Nothing about purgatory here. There is an age to come and it is either heaven or hell.

You may want to do your history again, for the first two centuries there was not even a mention of Purgatory. Not even the slightest allusion to the idea of Purgatory. The practice of the Roman church praying for the dead became more common by the beginning of the third century.

If you do your research you can you will find the roots of Purgatory in the pagan Greek religions. Also, the true founder of Purgatory was Origen, and the RCC considered him a heretic.

Foghorn · Jul 6, 2014

catholichomeschooler said:
The oral teachings also include the interpretations of scripture.

You see that among protestants there are many disagreements about the meaning of scripture. That's why there are so many different denominations.

The popes have had many disagreements also. That's quite odd, huh?

GoingByzantine · Jul 6, 2014

On married priests, my priest was not only married but he also has a son (I believe he is a widower now, never asked, but there is no sign of his wife). Its nice to talk to him about his family, his son just got married.

Sorry to diverge, just though it was a opportune time to share that.

yogosans14 · Jul 6, 2014

You lost me after the no Christmas...reminds me of the JW cult.

Oh look your a KJVonlyist...im just gonna leave now

BobRyan · Jul 6, 2014

SwordoftheLord said:
So Myself, Foghorn, and GoingByzantine kind of derailed a post. So I started this one. The goal is for GoingByzantine to back up the following using Scripture. Not talking about something a Pope said, or a Priest, but among the Scriptures.

I appreciate GoingByzantine for taking the challenge

Here is my list:

Nuns
Purgatory
Assumption of Mary
Priests living in Celibacy
Latin Mass in a English RC church (when looking at 1 Cor. 14:19)
*Christmas (since I believe Dec. 25th is a Catholic invention, and it was originally outlawed in the USA)
Sprinking
Infant Baptism
Venial and Mortal Sins

I would love GoingByzantine to start with Nuns myself

Would you also mind stating specifically in each case listed above the point that you believe the Bible refutes, or that is missing in the Bible ... etc?

Catholic Teachings.... Backed by Scripture??

Defender of the Faith

Saved by grace

Thankful For My Confirmation

catholichomeschooler

Guest

Defender of the Faith

Saved by grace

catholichomeschooler

Guest

catholichomeschooler

Guest

Saved by grace

Defender of the Faith

Saved by grace

catholichomeschooler

Guest

Defender of the Faith

Seeking the Narrow Road

Seeking the Narrow Road

Saved by grace

Saved by grace

Seeking the Narrow Road

Newbie

Junior Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency