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How far can one realistically move away from the key concepts of the Bible and still be considered a Christian?
For instance I believe that through Jesus one can attain a sense of oneness with the cosmic life force but in no way can you actually commune with this force. As such Jesus himself is the highest power that man can strive to associate with without there being a Father of Christ as well. This cosmic life force could be interpreted as the biblical God in a sense though my view of this tends to reject many of the ideas of prayer to God, the burning bush, etc.. unless we think of Jesus and God as the same thing.
I guess this isn't really too far away from the biblical concept of God and Jesus?
anyone have any thoughts on this?
thanks
The law of Christ (Gal 6:2), as there was a necessity for a change of the law (Heb 7:12).
Don't be fooled by those who would have you enslaved under the old yoke and burden.
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Matthew 5:17
Don't be fooled by those who would place such little emphasis on Christ and what he came to do. Jesus came to fulfill the law. You can't fully understand the New Testament if you ignore the Old Testament. As believers in Christ's redemption, his sacrifice for our undeserving selves, the law is written in our heart. We live the law, think the law, and share the law. The law has been fully revealed through Jesus, we now have it as God always meant us to. The law has been perfected in us. Because of this, we no longer need to give our lives to the lists of rules presented in the OT, but we can now understand what God intended through those laws, through what He did with His people.
Ripping verses out of context does not help anyone's cause, but look at scripture as a whole. The Bible is a book about God's revelation, it shows the journey of man, from fall to redemption by our Creator. The compromising philosophy plagues our world today, that is why christian is almost a meaningless word now days, as some before me have said. The only way you can be with God for all eternity is if you believe that Jesus is God, that you need Him, that He took your place in eternal punishment, that He conquered death, and that He rose in the flesh. By His grace and faith alone is Christ's redemption applied to you. These are the fundamentals of true Christianity. Many here will deny this statement, but don't be led astray.
I can't reply to any PM's as my post count is too low.
anyway , to sum up , at the moment I seen to be of a mixture of views - Christianity, Paganism and Hinduism - so I need to work out the way forward.
I think I will start a new thread in the Theology section if that would be more appropriate?
thanks for the replies.
*sigh* So now that we know who Christ is, and what his commandment is, why do we need the OT law? I just don't agree that we need anything from the OT to understand Christ. Christ is the cornerstone of the foundation of our faith, NOT the OT law. The Gospel explains the law, the law does not explain the Gospel. It's a subtle and yet an amazing difference.
I am fairly new to Christianity and would be called 'born again' in modern jargon I'm sure.
Basically I believe in the power and teachings of Jesus but not the Old Testament.
As for Paul, I see him as a man striving for perfection but not necessarily as the fountain of pure truth.
Is it possible to have these beliefs and still be a Christian?
This is only my opinion (in fact I'm quoting my pastor, but it so happens I agree with him).
Pastor says there are two pillars of Christianity. The virgin birth, and the resurrection. He says if you don't agree with those two points, he doesn't know what it is, but it isn't Christianity. I quoted him because he put it rather nicely in a nutshell. YMMV.
How far can one realistically move away from the key concepts of the Bible and still be considered a Christian?
The OT is more than the law. From it we also get the following:
Therefore thus says the Lord God, "Behold I am laying in Zion for a foundation, a stone, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone, of a sure foundation; he who believes will not be in haste." And I will make justice the line, and righteousness the plumbline.
Isaiah 28
Ironic, isn't it? You claim we don't need the OT to understand the Lord, and yet you use its language to describe him.
Which then begs the question; did God make a mistake in giving the law to the Israelites, or did the Israelites make a mistake in interpreting how to use that law. In other words, there is nothing wrong with the law itself. Paul followed it, Christ followed it, the disciples followed it. The law does not lead people astray, following the letter of the law while forgetting the heart of the law is what leads people astray.
Love is at the heart of our faith. If a person can love God with all their heart, soul, mind and strength and follow the law, then good for them. If they can do all of that, but not follow the law, then they have lost nothing. It is love that matters.
Sorry, but you're not getting it. Yes, Isaiah wrote about Christ, but the scripture is explained by Him. The "cornerstone" symbolism makes no sense apart from Christ. That being said, the OT points to Christ. Does the Gospel point to the OT as its fulfillment? I don't believe that it does or that it is even necessary. That isn't to say that the OT is entirely useless, just that it's not necessary: Once we have found faith in Christ, we're no longer in need of that old law (Gal 3:25).
I repeat, the OT is far more than the law. The canon of Scripture contains both Old and New Testaments, and in Timothy we read that it is useful for instruction, not as you seem to think, pretty well expendable before the gospels.
However, I doubt if there is much point trying again. It is not I who am failing to 'get' something important.
Good luck with that.
I am fairly new to Christianity and would be called 'born again' in modern jargon I'm sure.
Basically I believe in the power and teachings of Jesus but not the Old Testament.
As for Paul, I see him as a man striving for perfection but not necessarily as the fountain of pure truth.
Is it possible to have these beliefs and still be a Christian?
Which is the best section of the forum to discuss this in more detail?
thanks
Jesus has no legitimacy as the Messiah without these prophecies. If you rule out the OT then you also rule out the prophecies and make Jesus an illegitimate prophet.
Nobody is ruling out the OT. If one doesn't believe in the OT (particularly a new believer) does that mean he cannot believe in Christ? If the OT is excluded, does that render the identity of Christ as illegitimate? How can the OT be exalted as being equal to or greater than Christ if Christ is God in the flesh?
Yes, someone could believe in Christ without believing in the OT necessarily, however, I think that such a belief is internally and logically inconsistant and needs to be seriously examined. How can you walk with Jesus when you doubt His claims or the reasons why He came?
I am also not exatling the OT here. My point is that Jesus doesn't exist in a vacuum. Clearly, God could come unannounced and just say "Here I am" and we'd all worship Him. But He didn't do that. He came as the prophecied Messiah. So His claim to being the Messiah is not only resting on His Godhood but also His fulfillment of prophecy. If He couldnt fulfill the prophecies then all of His claims would come into serious question. To call the OT into question is treading on His legitmate claims to being the Messiah, and also, all the reasons that He came in the first place. The reason He had to come and redeem us is because of the original sin of Adam and Eve. Without redemptive history, His death on the cross doesn't even make sense. So clearly many problems crop up from denying the OT.
I learned an interesting bit of history today. Apparently, some of the first groups of Christians in China didn't have bibles. All they had were one or two pages of something scribbled about Christianity.
Nature teaches us that we die. Christ said he came so that we may live, eternally. Enough said in my opinion, for the Gentiles. Everything is explained sufficiently in the Gospels, except perhaps, for Jewish believers. They need the prophecies so that they may believe in Christ as the messiah.
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