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In Tom Wright terms, in the Eucharist the past event of crucifixion, now, and the future event are telescoped together in time just as the Passover meal telescoped together exodus, 'now' and ultimate release from bondage.
Yeah, I would probably be comfortable with that. It is a radical intersection of that particular historical event, the present moment you are in, the final form of things when everything is reconciled to God, and I suppose also the moment of creation.
So it is a sacrifice that you are present at, because it was a sacrifice - there is one sacrifice happening outside of time, in time, and present in many moments as well.
The Lutheran position is referred to as the Sacramental Union or the Real Presence. The analogy that is used in the Formula of Concord is that it is a parallel to the union of the two natures of Christ so that the body and blood of Christ are "in, with, and under" the bread and wine.
In fact, consubstantiation is rejected by Lutherans as a scholastic misrepresentation of their position.
Brian (former Missouri Synod elder)
Yeah, I would probably be comfortable with that. It is a radical intersection of that particular historical event, the present moment you are in, the final form of things when everything is reconciled to God, and I suppose also the moment of creation.
So it is a sacrifice that you are present at, because it was a sacrifice - there is one sacrifice happening outside of time, in time, and present in many moments as well.
This is a beautiful description and the same understanding my priest presented to me when preparing for baptism. Thank you.
hello-- one thing to consider-- only the catholic sacrament of "orders" is considered real or apostolic ,
this is why the "real presence" is only symbolic in the other domonation's , (example protestants, evangelicals etc)
hello-- one thing to consider-- only the catholic sacrament of "orders" is considered real or apostolic ,
this is why the "real presence" is only symbolic in the other domonation's , (example protestants, evangelicals etc)
They are symbolic in the prenominalistic sense of the word.They are not merely symbolic.
Symbol = the vehicle by which a prototype is delivered.Not sure I get your meaning.
Symbol = the vehicle by which a prototype is delivered.
Vs. Symbol = a disconnected reference to something else.
Well, the pre-consecrated bread and wine symbolize Christ's Body and Blood, respectively, and they're vehicles of the Eucharistic Sacrifice in that once the priest consecrates them on the Holy Altar they actually become the Body and Blood of Christ for the faithful to partake of.
Well, the pre-consecrated bread and wine symbolize Christ's Body and Blood, respectively, and they're vehicles of the Eucharistic Sacrifice in that once the priest consecrates them on the Holy Altar they actually become the Body and Blood of Christ for the faithful to partake of.
I guess it is a good think we are not New Testament-onlyists!
Indeed and it's good that Anglicans have tradition, scripture, and reason to guide us. After all, the early New Testament church didn't have a complete Bible with the New Testament canon to rely on and somehow they made it work.
I guess that would rule out the idea of the Bible onlyists.
My point is that the Eucharist partaken of is a symbol. It is a true symbol-- a coming together. A true symbol is participation in something "actually".Well, the pre-consecrated bread and wine symbolize Christ's Body and Blood, respectively, and they're vehicles of the Eucharistic Sacrifice in that once the priest consecrates them on the Holy Altar they actually become the Body and Blood of Christ for the faithful to partake of.
However, that connection doesn't actually exist. While the ceremony itself commemorates the Last Supper and the Crucifixion, the sacrifice that occurs is only the sacrifice of ourselves and of our "praise and thanksgiving."
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