Can A Believer Baptise Anothre Believer

James Is Back · Sep 6, 2014

RDKirk said:
Not if you have one or two witnesses...which might be a good idea regardless who does it.

This and have it recorded via video too

Radagast · Sep 6, 2014

RDKirk said:
Not if you have one or two witnesses...which might be a good idea regardless who does it.

Indeed; but if the baptism happened far away, or a long time ago, witnesses might be tricky to get hold of. That's why "baptismal certificates" exist.

RDKirk · Sep 6, 2014

Radagast said:
Indeed; but if the baptism happened far away, or a long time ago, witnesses might be tricky to get hold of. That's why "baptismal certificates" exist.

Valid Body of Christ procedures ought to work everywhere all the time. Baptismal certificates might not be a good idea in North Korea.

But then, if a congregation is not going to accept a new member's statement, "Yes, I have been baptized by immersion," then maybe that's not a membership that ought to happen anyway.

Radagast · Sep 6, 2014

RDKirk said:
Valid Body of Christ procedures ought to work everywhere all the time. Baptismal certificates might not be a good idea in North Korea.

Hard cases make bad law.

RDKirk said:
But then, if a congregation is not going to accept a new member's statement, "Yes, I have been baptized by immersion," then maybe that's not a membership that ought to happen anyway.

It tends to be more of an issue with infant-baptizers (where the time-lag is usually greater), or when major denominational boundaries get crossed (for example, situations where the exact words of baptism are seen as important).

PaladinValer · Dec 23, 2014

It is best that an ordained minister baptized because he or she has a special calling to do the Ministry of Word and Sacrament and because he or she has been specifically trained to serve in the capacity.

However, there are times when an ordained minister is not available and there arises a situation when baptism is desired and must be done quickly. Anyone can baptize, even a non-Christian, insofar as the Baptismal Rite is done with water, in Trinitarian formula and theology, and with the intent to give an actual baptism (in other words, it wasn't done in practice or play).

In these Emergency Baptism situations, find out the persons name, make sure they truly intend to be baptized, have never been baptized before, and then say and do "N, I baptize you in the Name of the Father (pour water on the head), and of the Son (pour water on the head), and of the Holy Spirit (pour water on the head)." Do not attempt to solicit any sort of confession or affirmation of any kind (that's outside your prevue), and if there is someone who is ordained around (or at least someone who can serve in some official capacity, like a licensed and instituted Reader or Acolyte, or a Subdeacon), do not attempt to baptize unless directed to do so by the cleric.

And never baptize anyone who does not desire or has been baptized before. God works the grace in all baptisms; all the cleric or layperson does is perform the outward and visible rite (a real symbol, if one will). It has always been on record that "rebaptizing" is a serious offense.

A person who survives the encounter is not rebaptized. Instead, the individual should be brought to church at the most earliest convenient time to then be welcomed and be anointed with Chrism in churches or denominations with that ancient rite, as well as given charge officially to take roll in the Church, confess, affirm faith, and so on and so forth. The layperson who did the baptism should be present at the same time and can act as a witness.

bbbbbbb · Dec 24, 2014

PaladinValer said:
It is best that an ordained minister baptized because he or she has a special calling to do the Ministry of Word and Sacrament and because he or she has been specifically trained to serve in the capacity.

However, there are times when an ordained minister is not available and there arises a situation when baptism is desired and must be done quickly. Anyone can baptize, even a non-Christian, insofar as the Baptismal Rite is done with water, in Trinitarian formula and theology, and with the intent to give an actual baptism (in other words, it wasn't done in practice or play).

In these Emergency Baptism situations, find out the persons name, make sure they truly intend to be baptized, have never been baptized before, and then say and do "N, I baptize you in the Name of the Father (pour water on the head), and of the Son (pour water on the head), and of the Holy Spirit (pour water on the head)." Do not attempt to solicit any sort of confession or affirmation of any kind (that's outside your prevue), and if there is someone who is ordained around (or at least someone who can serve in some official capacity, like a licensed and instituted Reader or Acolyte, or a Subdeacon), do not attempt to baptize unless directed to do so by the cleric.

And never baptize anyone who does not desire or has been baptized before. God works the grace in all baptisms; all the cleric or layperson does is perform the outward and visible rite (a real symbol, if one will). It has always been on record that "rebaptizing" is a serious offense.

A person who survives the encounter is not rebaptized. Instead, the individual should be brought to church at the most earliest convenient time to then be welcomed and be anointed with Chrism in churches or denominations with that ancient rite, as well as given charge officially to take roll in the Church, confess, affirm faith, and so on and so forth. The layperson who did the baptism should be present at the same time and can act as a witness.

This is relatively sound advice IMO. I found myself in that situation over a year ago in China when two of my Christian students asked me to baptize them. We did it in a bathtub in a small hotel room.

I daresay that the vast majority of Christians will never find themselves in my position, nor did I ever expect it myself. However, there were no other reasonable possibilities and both they and I are confident that God has accepted their faith as expressed through their baptisms.

Bob Carabbio · Feb 20, 2015

James Is Back said:
Can a believer that has been baptized themselves baptize another believer?

Of course. Baptism is an "Ordinance" not a "Sacrament", and anybody can perform the ritual, in any place that there's enough water.

The Bible says that when a person Becomes a CHRISTIAN, then they should be Baptized - SO JUST DO IT!!!!!

Josie Adams · Feb 21, 2015

When I became a believer I just wanted to get baptized. It took months for the Pastor to organize to do it in the church service. Mind you, both my husband and a friend were led towards God by the testimony I gave in church.

I agree that it is biblical that any believer can baptize, but like anything I believe we should seek God's guidance on it. If I would have just gone out and had any believer do it through my will instead of seeking God on it (who I believe led me to have that particular Pastor do it in Church) then I wouldn't have witnessed to people who were touched by my testimony.

Devorim · Mar 7, 2015

Wow. I had No Idea that when people are baptized, they are merely baptized into a church! Is this the general belief? Or is it the belief among a few?

PaladinValer · Mar 7, 2015

Devorim said:
Wow. I had No Idea that when people are baptized, they are merely baptized into a church! Is this the general belief? Or is it the belief among a few?

Which posts say or suggest that?

Albion · Mar 7, 2015

Devorim said:
Wow. I had No Idea that when people are baptized, they are merely baptized into a church! Is this the general belief? Or is it the belief among a few?

It would have to be a few. A Baptism is widely-accepted among all the usual denominations as valid, regardless of which church performs it; and the belief is that it makes one a member of Christ's church overall, not of the denomination performing the ceremony.

It might be that to be a voting member of some congregation, their rules require the person to be a baptized Christian, but I would call that a different matter.

Devorim · Mar 7, 2015

I had asked: "Wow. I had No Idea that when people are baptized, they are merely baptized into a church! Is this the general belief? Or is it the belief among a few?

PaladinValer said:
Which posts say or suggest that?

Here are a couple:
The first, while not sayng that, seems to indicate it:

contango said:
...In your picture if you were baptised by a believer, then found a church and got baptised again, what happens if you move away from the area and settle in another church? Should you be baptised a third time?

The second one says it:

bbbbbbb said:
I had an interesting discussion with a Baptist pastor once about this issue. His contention was that one is baptized into a local church and when one changes churches one must be rebaptized into the new church. This helps explain the amazingly large number of baptisms performed by such denominations as the Southern Baptist Convention.

It should be noted that not all Baptists believe this. Nevertheless, I view it as a serious error on their part.

I noted these posts also...

RDKirk said:
...The most strict churches I've run into would require, at most, a letter or some communication with the previous church to indicate you were a member of a church that baptized by immersion.

I've never heard before of one that would require re-baptism of someone who had already been baptized by immersion, and I think most would consider that a heretical opinion that denied the basic efficacy of baptism.

RDKirk said:
...But then, if a congregation is not going to accept a new member's statement, "Yes, I have been baptized by immersion," then maybe that's not a membership that ought to happen anyway.

Amein, RDKirk....

PaladinValer · Mar 7, 2015

Devorim said:
I had asked: "Wow. I had No Idea that when people are baptized, they are merely baptized into a church! Is this the general belief? Or is it the belief among a few?

Here are a couple:
The first, while not sayng that, seems to indicate it:

That doesn't indicate it at all. The poster is not referring to being baptized into churches, but the issue of "rebaptism".

The second one says it:

I suggest a very close second look, since that poster was disagreeing with the minister.

I noted these posts also...

Those don't have anything to do with being baptized into churches but, again, with the issue of rebaptism.

As others have said, which is true, pretty much all the big name Christian churches and denominations that are Apostolic (Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, etc) or "Magisterial Protestant" (Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc) accept the baptisms done under the auspices of each other, principally because their baptismal theology rejects the idea that one is baptized into a church. Many "Radical Reformationists", which includes Baptists, Non-denominationalists, and others, have more restrictive attitudes on what constitutes a valid baptism and may not accept a baptism done under the auspices of a different church or denomination based on those attitudes. However, while they are utterly wrong to do so, to their credit, they don't have that attitude because of the idea of being "baptized into the church" but because they reject some critical aspect of the baptism performed (paedobaptism typically, although some have odder reasons). Their theology still is that one is baptized into Christ, not a church.

contango · Mar 7, 2015

Devorim said:
Here are a couple:
The first, while not sayng that, seems to indicate it:

....

If you read my post in context I'm not saying you're baptised into a church, I'm asking if someone thinks they need to be baptised again and again and again if they move around a lot.

When we are called to "repent and be baptised" there's no indication that changing churches means we have to be baptised again. That way lies all sorts of silliness.

Devorim · Mar 7, 2015

No, no, no! I was not reading that the writers intended that people are baptized into churches. I should have been clearer. I was reading, in those first two mentioned notes, that the churches seemed to take that liberty to think that the people were baptized into them. And it amazes me, too, that in the bottom two mentioned notes, the churches did not believe the people but demanded proofs.

Albion · Mar 8, 2015

Devorim said:
No, no, no! I was not reading that the writers intended that people are baptized into churches. I should have been clearer. I was reading, in those first two mentioned notes, that the churches seemed to take that liberty to think that the people were baptized into them. And it amazes me, too, that in the bottom two mentioned notes, the churches did not believe the people but demanded proofs.

Your point is that churches know better, but that they treat the Baptism as amounting to joining that denomination or congregation.

Yes, this is common. We often hear--and even read on these forums--people saying, "I now belong to a non-denominational church but I was baptized Lutheran" or something like that.

The reason that churches tend to think or talk this way, however, is probably because people usually DO join that congregation or denomination when getting baptized there. It's rare that anyone approaches a pastor and says that he wants to be baptized in his church but hasn't yet decided what denomination he is going to join! The two normally go together.

Devorim · Mar 8, 2015

Albion said:
...

Thank you, Albion. I had not known that churches considered baptism their own, although I should have. My church experience was so limited that many things surprise me, when I hear of them.

Where I attend now -- since 1999 -- an occasional public baptism occurs, like in a lake at our yearly camp-out, but I have not yet been to one. Most of our baptisms are private and unannounced -- individual.

dayhiker · Apr 3, 2015

I believe any believer can baptize a new believer.
I don't see any problem getting baptized a 2nd time. What ever helps one feel they are committed to Jesus and walking with God.

Hawkiz · Apr 3, 2015

dayhiker said:
I believe any believer can baptize a new believer.
I don't see any problem getting baptized a 2nd time. What ever helps one feel they are committed to Jesus and walking with God.

I would whole heartedly agree with the first part of your post: one believer 'can' baptize another; clearly The Church has established an elder or priest baptizing another as the norm, but very few Church bodies would disagree with you, but I would ask you to consider the following:
Ephesians 4:4-6. '4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling, 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in all.'

St. Paul indicates here that there is only ONE baptism for the believer. Multiple baptisms might make us 'feel' better about their walk, but as far as the One Lord is concerned, they are unnecessary. Just something to chew on...

Peace in Christ

Albion · Apr 3, 2015

dayhiker said:
I believe any believer can baptize a new believer.
I don't see any problem getting baptized a 2nd time. What ever helps one feel they are committed to Jesus and walking with God.

You've described a crucial issue that anyone contemplating this (as opposed to asking about it as a hypothetical matter) has to decide on.

Is Baptism a sacrament that makes one a member of Christ's church and forgives sin (or else reassures the recipient of it)? Or is it simply a symbol or something done to demonstrate one's belief in Christ?

If it's the first of those, you're in league with all the historic churches and the great majority of Christians ,and there is no such thing as a re-baptism for the reason that it is something indelible.

If it's the second of those, you can be baptized as often as you feel the need, since you are seeing it as simply an act of obedience and dedication (or rededication when something has change in your life).

In either case, any ordinary Christian can--in theory and technically speaking--baptize. But as a practical matter, there is a good reason not to do that unless it is an emergency situation.

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