Ask the arminian logic for their TULIP and debate with them
I'm either arminian or calvinist, you may ask how does that work? Well, read more
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Ask the arminian logic for their TULIP and debate with themShow your logic. To me, that does not follow.
How are they necessarily linked, if TULIP makes sense? (Or maybe I should say, What does TULIP have to do with the question of them being linked?) You need to show your work more. I'm not a mind reader.
As far as I know, I have not intentionally avoided your question. I was trying to give you better than what you are asking for, too.And you throw few verses to me? What's the for? Even if the verses are true I don't see how you're avoiding my question.
The Grace Community Church's (John MacArthur) doctrinal statement (Doctrinal Statement | Grace Community Church) says that regeneration requires action on the individual as it occurs:SHOW me where he said that they precede Regeneration. I do not see it.
This is an example of assuming a premise (God exclusively chooses saved and lost) and then asking a different question (Were you there?). Used car salesman technique. Maybe your joking!You were there to help him choose you, before the foundation of the world when he chose you? --even predestined your existence and salvation?
I don't dispute that it is the people's fault --after all, they have sinned, and deserve no better. That doesn't imply that God never planned for that to happen, or even that his reason for creating each one that ends up damned is for the purpose of his glory, to show his power and justice and his mercy to those he chose for glory.God choose ppl in view of Christ, God want all to be saved.. you agree?
God didn't actively choose ppl for hell, it's ppl's fault for rejecting Christ
You yourself say here, that "..if God does not rejoice in a sinners damnation, God gets no glory from it." and deduced from that that Calvin was wrong in saying God gets glory from it. YOU linked them together as logically mutually incompatible. Paint it how you like.I never said that John Calvin said that God rejoices over a sinners damnation. You can read the Calvin quote for yourself.
I did postulate that if God does not rejoice in a sinners damnation, God gets no glory from it. If X, then Y does not necessitate If Y, then X.
No. I will try again: I am not saying anything about the angels --that is your narrative. I make no comment on it other than to say the premise (angels are rejoicing) doesn't logically lead to the conclusion (God is rejoicing). It may or may not be true, but the one doesn't necessarily mean the other is true.If my logic is poor then you are saying Angels, who behold the face of God continually, may love that which God does not love - rejoice where God would not rejoice.
You said, "Neither MacArthur (per his doctrinal statement) nor I believe He will force himself on anyone." You are, or are you not, referring to the Calvinistic doctrine of Irresistable Grace-- i.e. that God regenerates a person quite independent of any act of will on their part, changing their heart and will.? You certainly seem to take this work of God, regeneration, which I call the Gift of God, as 'forcing'. You used the very word, "force". If that is not what you were talking about, what were you talking about?I never linked the gift of God to FORCING. Your form of logic includes a lot of mind reading - you frequently attribute statements to me that I never came close to saying.
The Grace Community Church's (John MacArthur) doctrinal statement (Doctrinal Statement | Grace Community Church) says that regeneration requires action on the individual as it occurs:
when the repentant sinner, as enabled by the Holy Spirit, responds in faith to the divine provision of salvation.
Repentance and response are actions taken by the individual. The Holy Spirit does not do the repenting or responding.
Analogy: If I say that I hit a home run when the ball makes contact with the bat at 110 MPH, what happens first the home run or bat to ball contact?
If MacArthur believes and/or teaches repentance and response follow regeneration, the doctrinal statement is misleading - and perhaps deceptive.
This is an example of assuming a premise (God exclusively chooses saved and lost) and then asking a different question (Were you there?). Used car salesman technique. Maybe your joking!
If I say I was stung by a paper wasp, someone might ask, "When?", and I will reply, "When I fell from the tree." Since they saw me fall from the tree, my answer makes perfect sense, and even suggests why I fell from the tree.Analogy: If I say that I hit a home run when the ball makes contact with the bat at 110 MPH, what happens first the home run or bat to ball contact?
Do you need a refresher course on the Scriptures that show the unregenerated are unable to repent or respond positively to the gospel? We've been over this enough. Good day, sir. And yes, God bless you.Repentance and response are actions taken by the individual. The Holy Spirit does not do the repenting or responding.
You said that I said that John Calvin said "God rejoices over a sinners damnation" and objected to that.You yourself say here, that "..if God does not rejoice in a sinners damnation, God gets no glory from it." and deduced from that that Calvin was wrong in saying God gets glory from it. YOU linked them together as logically mutually incompatible. Paint it how you like.
I said "Angels follow God, so if the Angels rejoice over a sinner's repentance, then so does God." Angels follow God can be thought of as "If angels rejoice over X, then God rejoices over X".No. I will try again: I am not saying anything about the angels --that is your narrative. I make no comment on it other than to say the premise (angels are rejoicing) doesn't logically lead to the conclusion (God is rejoicing). It may or may not be true, but the one doesn't necessarily mean the other is true.
It is more accurate to say it occurred just before I fell out of the tree. People frequently think in cause and effect. Its When <cause>, then <effect>.If I say I was stung by a paper wasp, someone might ask, "When?", and I will reply, "When I fell from the tree." Since they saw me fall from the tree, my answer makes perfect sense, and even suggests why I fell from the tree.
God, who is love, has good plans for me:You know what I was being sarcastic about. Don't pretend otherwise.
So you can't answer the point I made. God does not need to find out what you are going to do to make his plans concerning you.
No thank you I will stick with the Bible.Do you need a refresher course on the Scriptures that show the unregenerated are unable to repent or respond positively to the gospel?
I would never call the gift of God forcing. You should know I don't believe in the Calvinist doctrine of Irresistible Grace. God may use circumstances to get the resistant to do His Will - as in the case of Jonah (who himself was a prophet). If God does not force his prophet (Jonah) to do something, why would he force anyone else?God no more forces himself on anyone than he forced them to exist. You would call the gift of God FORCING???
I love how Thomas Jefferson described Calvinism:Calvinist's limited atonement? Well, personally I think calvinism explanation in their logic or whatsoever but it's confusing and complicated. I rather be on the side with the early church fathers. That's why I'm not a fan of that tradition.
John Calvin justified killing his theological opponents with the BibleI love how Thomas Jefferson described Calvinism:
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