• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

Calvin

Jump to latest Follow Reply
Status
Not open for further replies.
Sort by date Sort by votes

heymikey80

Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur
Dec 18, 2005
14,496
921
✟49,309.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
JM said:
What John Calvin a "Covenant" theologian?
Click to expand...
John Calvin predated Covenant theology as-defined, though some aspects of Covenant theology appear in his works.

Different developments in Covenant theology have a history. Reading Calvin's Commentaries on Gal. 3 you find many of the same arguments as are made today.

So it depends what aspects of Covenant Theology you mean. Theologies develop and reform more and more due to their discoveries about God's Word.
 
Upvote 0

Tychicum

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2006
931
2
✟23,592.00
Faith
Protestant
It is difficult to paint John Calvin with MUCH of what he is given credit for ...

I am Dispensational ... but agree with much of Calvin's thesis "Institutes of the Christian Religion". Volumes 1 through 3 almost entirely. Volume 4 we don't agree about much ... as Calvin drifted off from Scripture to Church government and he paralleled the Catholic Church in a LOT of opinion there ...

It would be hard to extract "Covenantism" as it is known today out of Calvin's books ...
 
Upvote 0

Dave Taylor

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2004
570
30
Franklin, TN
✟32,106.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Tychicum said:
It would be hard to extract "Covenantism" as it is known today out of Calvin's books ...
Click to expand...


Yet it would be impossible to extract "Dispensationalism" from Calvin either. His principles were strongly contrary to "dispensationalism", which had yet to come into existence during Calvin's day.

Notice Calvin's commentary on Romans 11, and how it aligns firmly with all historical writings on that passage, much to the complete opposite of how it is often misused by Dispensationalism today.

John Calvin (1509-1564) Commentary on the Book of Romans
Viewable here online at CCEL

Romans 11:25. I would not, etc. Here he rouses his hearers to a greater attention, while he avows that he is going to declare something that was secret. Nor did he do this without reason; for he wished to conclude, by a brief or plain sentence, a very perplexed question; and yet he declares what no one could have expected. But the words, Lest ye should be proud in yourselves, 1 show what was his designed object; and that was, to check the arrogance of the Gentiles, lest they should exult over the Jews. This admonition was also necessary, lest the defection of that people should immoderately disturb the minds of the weak, as though the salvation of them all was to be for ever despaired of. The same is still not less useful to us at this day, so that we may know, that the salvation of the remnant, whom the Lord will at length gather to himself, is hid, sealed as it were by his signet. And whenever a long delay tempts us to despair, let us remember this word mystery; by which Paul clearly reminds us, that the mode of their conversion will neither be common nor usual; and hence they act absurdly who attempt to measure it by their own judgment; for what can be more unreasonable than to regard that as incredible which is far removed from our view? It is called a mystery, because it will be incomprehensible until the time of its revelation. 2 It is, however, made known to us, as it was to the Romans, that our faith may be content with the word, and support us with hope, until the event itself come to light.
That blindness in part, etc. "In part," I think, refers not simply to time, nor to the number, but means, in a manner, or in a measure; by which expression he intended, as it seems to me, only to qualify a declaration which in itself was severe. Until does not specify the progress or order of time, but signifies the same thing, as though he had said, "That the fullness of the Gentiles," etc. The meaning then is, -- That God had in a manner so blinded Israel, that while they refused the light of the gospel, it might be transferred to the Gentiles, and that these might occupy, as it were, the vacated possession. And so this blindness served the providence of God in furthering the salvation of the Gentiles, which he had designed. And the fullness of the Gentiles is to be taken for a great number: for it was not to be, as before, when a few proselytes connected themselves with the Jews; but such was to be the change, that the Gentiles would form almost the entire body of the Church. http://www.ccel.org/c/calvin/comment3/comm_vol38/htm/xv.vi.htm#_fnf3
26. And so all Israel, etc. Many understand this of the Jewish people, as though Paul had said, that religion would again be restored among them as before: but I extend the word Israel to all the people of God, according to this meaning, -- "When the Gentiles shall come in, the Jews also shall return from their defection to the obedience of faith; and thus shall be completed the salvation of the whole Israel of God, which must be gathered from both; and yet in such a way that the Jews shall obtain the first place, being as it were the first-born in God's family." This interpretation seems to me the most suitable, because Paul intended here to set forth the completion of the kingdom of Christ, which is by no means to be confined to the Jews, but is to include the whole world. The same manner of speaking we find in Galatians 6:16. The Israel of God is what he calls the Church, gathered alike from Jews and Gentiles; and he sets the people, thus collected from their dispersion, in opposition to the carnal children of Abraham, who had departed from his faith.


 
Upvote 0

Tychicum

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2006
931
2
✟23,592.00
Faith
Protestant
Yes I agree in part.

I doubt however that John Calvin thought he was living in the Garden of Eden ... so even he must have recognized "some" changes in God's program.

Calvin was not so far out of the Catholic Church and did maintain many of their doctrines ... As do those of the old churches who value their tradition at times over plain Scripture.

But frankly ... Calvin is given credit for much which is actually Augustine in origin ... His fourth book focused on Ecclesiology and showed his favour for a hierarchy of clergy.



We have a lot to thank Calvin for ... but he didn't walk on water ...
 
Upvote 0

Dave Taylor

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2004
570
30
Franklin, TN
✟32,106.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Nope....only two people did that...and one of them wasn't very adept at it.
 
Upvote 0

Tychicum

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2006
931
2
✟23,592.00
Faith
Protestant
JM said:
I'm on my second reading of the Institutes, the foundation for Covenantal thinking is there, just not clear.
Click to expand...
Now I realize that what I had read was a translation ... but I really enjoyed Calvin's writing style.

I know that after having spent his whole life writing and re-writing and re-writing it would have to be good ... but his style is so God honouring and sincere.

His works rank right up there with the great music composers.

Jonathan Edwards and John Bunyan I have a lot of time for as well.

Have you ever tried to wade through some John Owen? His "Death of Death in the Death of Christ" is a book of profound thought ... but so hard to get through the language.
 
Upvote 0

Tychicum

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2006
931
2
✟23,592.00
Faith
Protestant
JM said:
Yes, I own a copy of Death of Death...excellent. Are you a Richard Baxter fan? The Reformed Pastor is excellent reading as well.
Click to expand...
No. I haven't come across Baxter. I will put him on the list.

On a more modern tone ... I like Loraine Boettner ... a lot ... but I do have a few bones to pick with him. When we meet in heaven I intend on taking him and A.W. Pink both out behind the woodshed for a lesson or two of my own.

 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Zwingli denominations
Replies
28
Views
1K
Denomination Specific Theology
MarkRohfrietsch
J
Calvinism of today versus puritanical Calvinism
Replies
12
Views
948
Debate with a Calvinist
ladodgers6
True Circumcision: Jesus’ Baptism with the Holy Spirit Fulfills Every OT Ritual Washing
Replies
7
Views
304
Christian Scriptures
BrotherJJ
From ‘idolatry’ to the Eucharist, John Bergsma recounts his path to the Church
Replies
0
Views
196
One Bread, One Body - Catholic
Michie
D
How much is known about John Calvin the man
Replies
4
Views
494
Christian History
dms1972
D
Menu
Log in
Register