Calling all soldiers...

OhhJim · Sep 26, 2006

nb37 said:
Men are suppose to be our Covering, they are the ones that are suppose to protect and pray for us...And that is to Cover the women. They are to stand in the Gap. They are to stand on the walls. Evil should have to go through them first to get to us, and if they are doing their job evil would not penetrate.

Oh, please. The women I know are going to do what they want, when they want, and the last thing they want is for men to "cover" them. Where do you get this "cover the women" stuff in scripture? Where are the men supposed to pray specifically for the women? Give me a Bible verse, pleeeeeeeeease!!!!

Grunt is absolutely correct.

Irascible · Sep 26, 2006

Look at the EXACT circumstances of that thread Pyro. Think and ignore your emotions for a minute. How could any real Christian man have defended her? It was a literal impossibility. If you willingly walk into the viper's lair all alone, you are defenseless by choice. A call to Christian men does no good if you choose to pursue the opposite.

"laughing along with their derogatory comments about their lewd behaviour"
I'm sorry, this occurred where exactly in that thread? You're full of it Pyro. It didn't happen. You're pandering to the bandwagon.

I'll make a call of my own, not specific to that thread but in general. A call to certain females to be women instead of girls. Too many of you are utterly ruled by your emotions. You ignore men of virtue because they don't excite you. You yawn at the ones who put God first because their chin isn't chiseled enough. Then when the lothario that you invited into your life robs you of your virtue you cry aloud to the men you previously ignored. You have not found the real man that Pyro calls to because you do not want him. You are every bit as corrupted as the men you whine about, only your corruption is socially acceptable. Pull the log out of your eye before you complain about the splinters of others.

nb37 · Sep 26, 2006

OhhJim said:
Oh, please. The women I know are going to do what they want, when they want, and the last thing they want is for men to "cover" them. Where do you get this "cover the women" stuff in scripture? Where are the men supposed to pray specifically for the women? Give me a Bible verse, pleeeeeeeeease!!!!

Grunt is absolutely correct.

I'm sorry you sound bitter or angry at women. What I am talking about basically refers to married men, but as I am taught you don't wait until you are married to do this. Here's a little of what I'm talking about.

Prayer & Intercession
Women tend to be more comfortable praying than men are. For some reason, men tend to leave this area to their wives. However, as priests, the man should be the number one prayer warrior in the family.
"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (1 Corinthians 11:3) As head, men are in a unique prayer position. They, and only they, can offer prayer protection and covering to their wives and children. Nobody else is in the unique position to offer that protection. Satan desires to attack and destroy your family. But "No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house." (Mark 3:27 & Matthew 12:29) How does Satan bind you? By keeping you from praying. "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." (Ephesians 6:12) This battle is one that can only be won in prayer. No matter how strong a man is physically, no matter how good a fighter he is in the physical, he can't use that to protect his family. It is only by battling in prayer that men can truly protect their families.

JPPT1974 · Sep 26, 2006

Athalia said:
i like this thread It makes me want to learn how to be a better woman of the Lord like He calls us too, and to find ways to help my brothers of Christ to be good men of the Lord

Tink · Sep 26, 2006

< sarcasm > I think what we all need to do is argue and fight. One of us should say that women are to be protected. Another should state that women who go into a lair alone deserve what they get (this is how I understood your lair sentence). All in all, we should totally let satan cause more division in the Body of Christ.< / sarcasm>

I am wondering, however, if B2R had been raped if you would still think that she deserved what she got. Just a question.

Personally, I think the men of God could be better men and the women of God could be better women.

What I think we should ALL do is focus on loving our brothers and sisters.

Love.

Praetorian · Sep 26, 2006

Irascible said:
I'll make a call of my own, not specific to that thread but in general. A call to certain females to be women instead of girls. Too many of you are utterly ruled by your emotions. You ignore men of virtue because they don't excite you. You yawn at the ones who put God first because their chin isn't chiseled enough. Then when the lothario that you invited into your life robs you of your virtue you cry aloud to the men you previously ignored. You have not found the real man that Pyro calls to because you do not want him. You are every bit as corrupted as the men you whine about, only your corruption is socially acceptable.

I agree with this. You cannot blame men for a woman's bad judgment and misplaced trust. Women need to use their brains when choosing the men they date rather than listening to their emotions.

intricatic · Sep 26, 2006

The guy did something which was totally inexcusable. This is something which was not only unexpected within the context of the situation, but also completely inappropriate.

At the same time, B2R perhaps learned a lesson from this. Not every guy is worthy of trust and it's wise to exercise discretion before stepping into his proverbial "lair".

sherri · Sep 26, 2006

Since when is womens (or mens) intuition (which is what it often boils down to) always correct.
Since when were we blessed with the ability to read guys minds?
We don't.
We just have to make the wisest choices we possibly can with the resources we have, for the situation we're faced with.
And often it isn't enough. (As you'll find out, if you keep reading the threads on here (specially the young adults forum) and even start polling the girls in your local church.)
Girls feeling violated and betrayed by christian guys is such an age old story.

Not because the girls are tarts and the guys are pigs. Mostly because the girls are naive and the guys get too keen once they finally get their hands on the goodies.

And both have hormones.

Which is why I keep repeating my stance on purity as the only way.

Because it really is the only way to total safety and marriage in it's complete form, the way God ordained it to be.

Pyrogenesis · Sep 26, 2006

Irascible said:
Look at the EXACT circumstances of that thread Pyro. Think and ignore your emotions for a minute. How could any real Christian man have defended her? It was a literal impossibility.

If the guy in question had been a real Christian man, then it wouldn't have happened, would it? If his friends and/or leaders had provided a better example of what a man was supposed to be, then maybe he wouldn't be like that. I know the exact circumstances of that thread, and I'm not calling for an army of vigilantes to police the actions of every male. I'm calling for Christian men to start setting good examples and showing the way.

Irascible said:
If you willingly walk into the viper's lair all alone, you are defenseless by choice. A call to Christian men does no good if you choose to pursue the opposite.

Willingly walking into a vipers den is one thing, but accepting an invitation for dinner from a Christian guy? If you'd read her first thread about their first date, you'd realise that she wasn't purposely doing anything stupid. She had met this guy before, and from all appearances he was a great sort of guy.

Irascible said:
"laughing along with their derogatory comments about their lewd behaviour"
I'm sorry, this occurred where exactly in that thread? You're full of it Pyro. It didn't happen. You're pandering to the bandwagon.

I wasn't talking about that one specific incidence. I'm talking about the prevailing attitude among a lot of guys. You know, the one where they boast of how they've scored, or how they hooked up with someone. A lot of times we sit back and say nothing. Why?

Look, you don't have to like it, or even agree. But it's something that I felt needed saying, so I said it. If you feel like you need to call for women to reform themselves, that's fine. But I'm going to start right here with myself and other men before I start pointing the finger elsewhere.

intricatic · Sep 27, 2006

sherri said:
Since when is womens (or mens) intuition (which is what it often boils down to) always correct.
Since when were we blessed with the ability to read guys minds?
We don't.
We just have to make the wisest choices we possibly can with the resources we have, for the situation we're faced with.
And often it isn't enough. (As you'll find out, if you keep reading the threads on here (specially the young adults forum) and even start polling the girls in your local church.)
Girls feeling violated and betrayed by christian guys is such an age old story.

Not because the girls are tarts and the guys are pigs. Mostly because the girls are naive and the guys get too keen once they finally get their hands on the goodies.

And both have hormones.

Which is why I keep repeating my stance on purity as the only way.

Because it really is the only way to total safety and marriage in it's complete form, the way God ordained it to be.

We live in a fallen world, temptation is going to be an issue on both sides, as well as understimating or overestimating one another. Purity is probably one of the best methods of approaching a relationship, but it's also a shared responsibility. Women don't need to be totoally parranoid around men, and men don't have to constantly act like idiots around women.

Beauty4Ashes · Sep 27, 2006

I keep forgetting what I was going to say after reading through everyone elses responses.

Perhaps I should have responded first

However, the title and some of the content of your post reminds me of this verse from 2 Timothy 2-4.

"Endure hardship with us like a good soldier of Christ Jesus. No one serving as a soldier gets involved in civilian affairs—he wants to please his commanding officer."

We are all called to be soldiers for Jesus Christ, man and woman alike. We are called to swim against the current of society, like salmon upstream. We are called to live according to a standard not upheld by this world or even by today's legal system. We should all do better jobs of being soldiers. Men aren't the only ones who take things too far sometimes and who ignore their common sense or the Holy Spirit because their flesh somehow gets in the way. Both men and women should take purity and respect for the opposite sex and self control MUCH more seriously.

Irascible · Sep 27, 2006

sherri said:
Since when is womens intuition always correct. Since when were we blessed with the ability to read guys minds?

The fallacy here is that no mind reading is necessary.

You are right. Certain guys on the prowl is an age old story. The wise woman has known this since shortly after the age old story began. Hence age old axioms were developed.
Don't spend time alone with a man in his apartment, especially a love interest.
This is not some mystical knowledge lost to the ages. This is a hard fast rule that any woman knows.
Don't kiss on the first date.
Don't kiss at all until you know him very well.
No sex before marriage.
No petting.
Take your time in getting to know him.
Evaluate how he treats his mother, his neighbors, etc.

The list goes on and on. And just about every time I have read about how some woman was violated in some way she inevitably broke one if not a bunch of common sense rules. The exceptions to this are rare.

Yes! They are low life bums. And they will stay that way. Bums only change when they have to. As long as enough women remain gullible they don't have to. They don't care one wit about Pyro's call to arms. They won't even see it. But apparently plenty of "victims" do see it and applaud. They will remain victims because they refuse to deal with these reprobates with the cunning of a serpent. They just go on breaking common sense rules that their grandmothers knew and chalking up their ruin to their lack of telepathy.

ChrisWin1 · Sep 27, 2006

Irascible said:
Don't spend time alone with a man in his apartment

Tip #2 -- don't go anywhere in a car because you could get into an accident and die.

Look, two very mature adults of the opposite sex can certainly spend time together as friends in confined spaces such as one's house, pool house, apartment, condo, cave, car, heck even in a hotel room. I know, i know, I can hear the gasps about that one... but it's true. Being together in such a space with someone of the opposite sex does not automatically mean something's gonna happen. Trust your judgement and if you don't trust yourself or the other person then don't do it. Oh, but what about if you trust the other person and something still happens? Then go right back to Tip #2, don't get in a car 'cause you could get killed by someone else on the road or perhaps even by your own bad judgement.

Irascible said:
Evaluate how he treats his mother, his neighbors, etc.

And if he doesn't have a mother then don't consider him for anything more than a friend? Or if you don't see how he interacts with his neighbors? Then what you do is find a guy with a big furry dog that gets treated like a king 'cause odds are in your favor there!!!!!

Athalia · Sep 27, 2006

I have met and fallen into 'guys on the prowl' traps. and it is hard and it sucks. I was not being stupid. I knew them, or at least thought i did. I had known one guy for more then year. He appeared to be a strong christian, acted like it, helped people like it. I did not act inappropriatly at all. Nor encourage any kind of advances from kisses on ward. But that happend all one night. and he didn't take no for a long time and it took effort on my part to get away.

that is why i like pyro's post so much!!! If i hold all men accountable for the actions of the few men that have done such things to me, and taht i have seen happen to my friends, then I am called a femeinst. I do NOT hold all men accountable for what happend. I hold those that did it accountable.... Men must needs to hold men accoutable in these situations. They have to stop the bragging, etc. because they are the ones that hear it.

Just as women should hold other women accountable for their ill treatment of men. etc.

Irascible · Sep 27, 2006

Willingly walking into a vipers den is one thing, but accepting an invitation for dinner from a Christian guy?
Accepting an invitation to be alone on the couch in a single guys apartment... You talk about real Christian men. A real one wouldn't have engaged in such temptation. Therefore, yes, that was a loaded trap.

I'm talking about the prevailing attitude among a lot of guys. You know, the one where they boast of how they've scored, or how they hooked up with someone. A lot of times we sit back and say nothing. Why?
We must live on different plains of reality. You're talking to a Christian forum here, or so I thought. I have never heard such vulgarity in Christian gatherings. And if I had, you can believe that I and many others would have put a stop to it real quick.

Perhaps my problem is I don't hang around the same circles as most. It seems that a lot of men here associate with philanderers who call themselves Christians. It seems a lot of Christian women end up dating them. I'm at a loss.

Athalia · Sep 27, 2006

being alone on a couch shouldn't be such a great temptation for a strong christian man. I know a lot that it isn't.

Irascible · Sep 27, 2006

Look, two very mature adults of the opposite sex can certainly spend time together as friends... in a hotel room.

A marvelous example of foolishness passed off as wisdom, especially in the context of this thread. We're talking about two adults who are attracted to each other and are dating. The Bible says to flee temptation - that means run away. You propose that they dance with it all night long.

ChrisWin1 · Sep 27, 2006

Athalia said:
being alone on a couch shouldn't be such a great temptation for a strong christian man.

You are SOOOO correct!!!!! It is ridiculous to me to separate the sexes as much as some want. Man and woman can study together on the same couch. They can talk. They can watch a movie. Man and woman alone together can be 100% friendly. Maybe not for everyone, and that's too bad so if that's you then you do what you gotta do... but to suggest it for every man and woman across the board is, well, nuts.

ChrisWin1 · Sep 27, 2006

Irascible said:
Look, two very mature adults of the opposite sex can certainly spend time together as friends... in a hotel room.

A marvelous example of foolishness passed off as wisdom. The Bible says to flee temptation - that means run away. You propose that they dance with it all night long.

Dude, what's temptation in YOUR eyes is not temptation for EVERYONE.

intricatic · Sep 27, 2006

ChrisWin1 said:
Dude, what's temptation in YOUR eyes is not temptation for EVERYONE.

Keep in mind the situation which caused this thread, and how frequent things like this happen in our society. Of course it's temptation for everyone, except those who do not have hormones, or are not physically attracted to one another. The question is whether a person has the ability to overcome that temptation or not. I'd rather not have to even ask.

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