Brothers and Sisters, is it TIME FOR WRATH???

StarCannon · Nov 7, 2007

No problem, just wanted to make sure I hadn't misremembered.
tulc(has his own form of spice, it's called coffee!)

XD Cool!

KomissarSteve · Nov 7, 2007

StarCannon said:
The same thing with the christ myth. They used x-tianity to unite an empire and control the masses. You can scare ignorant peasants into obedienace if you tell them they'll burn in hell for not listening to the priests or what "god, jesus, insert other deities" tell them.

Well, to be fair, the actual political reason why Constantine chose Christianity (and keeping in mind that it's likely that he was also a genuine true believer in Christianity) as the official religion of the Roman Empire is because the century that had preceded his reign was fraught with some of the bloodiest civil wars that the Western World has ever seen. The old Greco-Roman pagan beliefs simply weren't uniting the citizenry of the Empire, and especially the military of the Empire, under whichever man currently occupied the throne. That's one thing we don't learn too well in school about Roman history - that the Third Century Crisis came really close to ending Roman civilization.

I don't think Constantine instituted Christianity to "control average people better"; history far more strongly indicates that he did so to ensure that the armies of the Empire wouldn't overthrow him and thus continue the mad cycle of regicide and violence that had cut short the lives of emperors who were at least as talented as he was. (Aurelian and Probus come to mind)

Renton405 · Nov 7, 2007

KomissarSteve said:
Well, to be fair, the actual political reason why Constantine chose Christianity (and keeping in mind that it's likely that he was also a genuine true believer in Christianity) as the official religion of the Roman Empire is because the century that had preceded his reign was fraught with some of the bloodiest civil wars that the Western World has ever seen. The old Greco-Roman pagan beliefs simply weren't uniting the citizenry of the Empire, and especially the military of the Empire, under whichever man currently occupied the throne. That's one thing we don't learn too well in school about Roman history - that the Third Century Crisis came really close to ending Roman civilization.

I don't think Constantine instituted Christianity to "control average people better"; history far more strongly indicates that he did so to ensure that the armies of the Empire wouldn't overthrow him and thus continue the mad cycle of regicide and violence that had cut short the lives of emperors who were at least as talented as he was. (Aurelian and Probus come to mind)

Constantine did what he did because he saw a miracle. Where he saw a cross in the sky and said that his army will fight in the name of that cross(Christ). COnstantine won, even though he was vastly outnumbered. And thus he was converted and understood the truth of Christ..He saw how the Catholics were persecuted in Rome so awfull, so he liberated them..

KomissarSteve · Nov 7, 2007

Renton405 said:
Constantine did what he did because he saw a miracle. Where he saw a cross in the sky and said that his army will fight in the name of that cross(Christ). COnstantine won, even though he was vastly outnumbered. And thus he was converted and understood the truth of Christ..

Right, that's what the legend says.

In the meantime, back in reality, there is no evidence that this actually happened. It could have happened, and I see no problem with believing that it happened - but, all the same, speaking of the Miracle at the Milvian Bridge as a fact contributes to a rather unconvincing argument.

BlackBerry · Nov 7, 2007

flicka said:
The "no true christan" arguement is often used as a last ditch effort to win a debate. It doesn't work but it's still fun to watch people turn on their own kind to make a point.

So very true.

Renton405 · Nov 7, 2007

KomissarSteve said:
Right, that's what the legend says.

In the meantime, back in reality, there is no evidence that this actually happened. It could have happened, and I see no problem with believing that it happened - but, all the same, speaking of the Miracle at the Milvian Bridge as a fact contributes to a rather unconvincing argument.

theres no evidence thats the ressurection happened either. Its called faith..Or do you not believe in the resurrection either?

StarCannon · Nov 7, 2007

theres no evidence thats the ressurection happened either. Its called faith..Or do you not believe in the resurrection either?

Faith is overrated.

united4Peace · Nov 7, 2007

Renton405 said:
theres no evidence thats the ressurection happened either. Its called faith..Or do you not believe in the resurrection either?

I dont know what KomissarSteve believes in....
However I hope you dont mind if I answer for myself...

I dont believe in a physical ressurection but rather a spiritual...
I also dont believe htat Jesus will be comming back as I believe Jesus is already with us...Spiritually....has never left .

flicka · Nov 7, 2007

Renton405 said:
theres no evidence thats the ressurection happened either. Its called faith..Or do you not believe in the resurrection either?

I don't believe in either. Uh oh.

ArchaicTruth · Nov 7, 2007

StarCannon said:
Faith is overrated.

depends

Beanieboy · Nov 7, 2007

So, I'm still waiting.
When is your God coming with the SmackDown?
I told him to meet me by the flagpole after school, and he was a no show.

ShieldOFaith · Nov 7, 2007

Beanieboy said:
So, I'm still waiting.
When is your God coming with the SmackDown?
I told him to meet me by the flagpole after school, and he was a no show.

Please go call all the people who lost someone in the 9/11 attacks. Go see someone from the Katrina disaster. Go hang out with someone in SoCal fires. Ask them how funny the GOD-SMACK was. Go!

united4Peace · Nov 7, 2007

ShieldOFaith said:
Please go call all the people who lost someone in the 9/11 attacks. Go see someone from the Katrina disaster. Go hang out with someone in SoCal fires. Ask them how funny the GOD-SMACK was. Go!

God didnt Cause those and dont accuse God of doing that!!

God was there however....comforting those who were hurting...(whether they knew it or not)
God was there crying along side those who were crying in pain...

Vene · Nov 7, 2007

ShieldOFaith said:
Please go call all the people who lost someone in the 9/11 attacks. Go see someone from the Katrina disaster. Go hang out with someone in SoCal fires. Ask them how funny the GOD-SMACK was. Go!

Caused by people (if it was by a god it was by the god of Islam)
Katrina was a natural disaster that was worsened due to government incompetence.
The California fires were caused by arson.

StarCannon · Nov 7, 2007

Ah, expressions of nature, such as hurricanes and fires and earthquakes are often detrimental to the health of populated centers.

happydance · Nov 7, 2007

ShieldOFaith said:
Please go call all the people who lost someone in the 9/11 attacks. Go see someone from the Katrina disaster. Go hang out with someone in SoCal fires. Ask them how funny the GOD-SMACK was. Go!

I don't believe you just wrote that.
Utter nonsense. With that kind of logic, God is behind everything.

ShieldOFaith · Nov 7, 2007

happydance said:
I don't believe you just wrote that.
Utter nonsense. With that kind of logic, God is behind everything.

Read this:

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 1 The words of Amos, one of the shepherds of Tekoa--what he saw concerning Israel two years before the earthquake, when Uzziah was king of Judah and Jeroboam son of Jehoash was king of Israel. 2 He said: "The Lord roars from Zion and thunders from Jerusalem; the pastures of the shepherds dry up, and the top of Carmel withers." [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 3 This is what the Lord says: "For three sins of Damascus, even for four, I will not turn back my wrath. Because she threshed Gilead with sledges having iron teeth, 4 I will send fire upon the house of Hazael that will consume the fortresses of Ben-Hadad. 5 I will break down the gate of Damascus; I will destroy the king who is in the Valley of Aven and the one who holds the scepter in Beth Eden. The people of Aram will go into exile to Kir," says the Lord. 6 This is what the Lord says: "For three sins of Gaza, even for four, I will not turn back my wrath. Because she took captive whole communities and sold them to Edom, 7 I will send fire upon the walls of Gaza that will consume her fortresses. 8 I will destroy the king of Ashdod and the one who holds the scepter in Ashkelon. I will turn my hand against Ekron, till the last of the Philistines is dead," says the Sovereign Lord. 9 This is what the Lord says: "For three sins of Tyre, even for four, I will not turn back my wrath. Because she sold whole communities of captives to Edom, disregarding a treaty of brotherhood, 10 I will send fire upon the walls of Tyre that will consume her fortresses." 11 This is what the Lord says: "For three sins of Edom, even for four, I will not turn back my wrath. Because he pursued his brother with a sword, stifling all compassion, because his anger raged continually and his fury flamed unchecked, 12 I will send fire upon Teman that will consume the fortresses of Bozrah." 13 This is what the Lord says: "For three sins of Ammon, even for four, I will not turn back my wrath. Because he ripped open the pregnant women of Gilead in order to extend his borders, 14 I will set fire to the walls of Rabbah that will consume her fortresses amid war cries on the day of battle, amid violent winds on a stormy day. 15 Her king will go into exile, he and his officials together," says the Lord.
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[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 1 This is what the Lord says: "For three sins of Moab, even for four, I will not turn back my wrath. Because he burned, as if to lime, the bones of Edom's king, 2 I will send fire upon Moab that will consume the fortresses of Kerioth. Moab will go down in great tumult amid war cries and the blast of the trumpet. 3 I will destroy her ruler and kill all her officials with him," says the Lord. 4 This is what the Lord says: "For three sins of Judah, even for four, I will not turn back my wrath. Because they have rejected the law of the Lord and have not kept his decrees, because they have been led astray by false gods, the gods their ancestors followed, 5 I will send fire upon Judah that will consume the fortresses of Jerusalem." 6 This is what the Lord says: "For three sins of Israel, even for four, I will not turn back my wrath. They sell the righteous for silver, and the needy for a pair of sandals. 7 They trample on the heads of the poor as upon the dust of the ground and deny justice to the oppressed. Father and son use the same girl and so profane my holy name. 8 They lie down beside every altar on garments taken in pledge. In the house of their god they drink wine taken as fines. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 9 "I destroyed the Amorite before them, though he was tall as the cedars and strong as the oaks. I destroyed his fruit above and his roots below. 10 "I brought you up out of Egypt, and I led you forty years in the desert to give you the land of the Amorites. 11 I also raised up prophets from among your sons and Nazirites from among your young men. Is this not true, people of Israel?" declares the Lord. 12 "But you made the Nazirites drink wine and commanded the prophets not to prophesy. 13 "Now then, I will crush you as a cart crushes when loaded with grain. 14 The swift will not escape, the strong will not muster their strength, and the warrior will not save his life. 15 The archer will not stand his ground, the fleet-footed soldier will not get away, and the horseman will not save his life. 16 Even the bravest warriors will flee naked on that day," declares the Lord.
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[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 1 Hear this word the Lord has spoken against you, O people of Israel--against the whole family I brought up out of Egypt: 2 "You only have I chosen of all the families of the earth; therefore I will punish you for all your sins." 3 Do two walk together unless they have agreed to do so? 4 Does a lion roar in the thicket when he has no prey? Does he growl in his den when he has caught nothing? 5 Does a bird fall into a trap on the ground where no snare has been set? Does a trap spring up from the earth when there is nothing to catch? 6 When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble? When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? 7 Surely the Sovereign Lord does nothing without revealing his plan to his servants the prophets. 8 The lion has roared-- who will not fear? The Sovereign Lord has spoken-- who can but prophesy? [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 9 Proclaim to the fortresses of Ashdod and to the fortresses of Egypt: "Assemble yourselves on the mountains of Samaria; see the great unrest within her and the oppression among her people." 10 "They do not know how to do right," declares the Lord, "who hoard plunder and loot in their fortresses." 11 Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: "An enemy will overrun the land; he will pull down your strongholds and plunder your fortresses." 12 This is what the Lord says: "As a shepherd saves from the lion's mouth only two leg bones or a piece of an ear, so will the Israelites be saved, those who sit in Samaria on the edge of their beds and in Damascus on their couches." 13 "Hear this and testify against the house of Jacob," declares the Lord, the Lord God Almighty. 14 "On the day I punish Israel for her sins, I will destroy the altars of Bethel; the horns of the altar will be cut off and fall to the ground. 15 I will tear down the winter house along with the summer house; the houses adorned with ivory will be destroyed and the mansions will be demolished," declares the Lord.
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[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]AMOS 1,2,3.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]to be continued...
[/FONT]

ShieldOFaith · Nov 7, 2007

happydance said:
I don't believe you just wrote that.
Utter nonsense. With that kind of logic, God is behind everything.

continued...

Happy, please read:

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 1 Hear this word, you cows of Bashan on Mount Samaria, you women who oppress the poor and crush the needy and say to your husbands, "Bring us some drinks!" 2 The Sovereign Lord has sworn by his holiness: "The time will surely come when you will be taken away with hooks, the last of you with fishhooks. 3 You will each go straight out through breaks in the wall, and you will be cast out toward Harmon," declares the Lord. 4 "Go to Bethel and sin; go to Gilgal and sin yet more. Bring your sacrifices every morning, your tithes every three years. 5 Burn leavened bread as a thank offering and brag about your freewill offerings-- boast about them, you Israelites, for this is what you love to do," declares the Sovereign Lord. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 6 "I gave you empty stomachs in every city and lack of bread in every town, yet you have not returned to me," declares the Lord. 7 "I also withheld rain from you when the harvest was still three months away. I sent rain on one town, but withheld it from another. One field had rain; another had none and dried up. 8 People staggered from town to town for water but did not get enough to drink, yet you have not returned to me," declares the Lord. 9 "Many times I struck your gardens and vineyards, I struck them with blight and mildew. Locusts devoured your fig and olive trees, yet you have not returned to me," declares the Lord. 10 "I sent plagues among you as I did to Egypt. I killed your young men with the sword, along with your captured horses. I filled your nostrils with the stench of your camps, yet you have not returned to me," declares the Lord. 11 "I overthrew some of you as I overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. You were like a burning stick snatched from the fire, yet you have not returned to me," declares the Lord. 12 "Therefore this is what I will do to you, Israel, and because I will do this to you, prepare to meet your God, O Israel." 13 He who forms the mountains, creates the wind, and reveals his thoughts to man, he who turns dawn to darkness, and treads the high places of the earth-- the Lord God Almighty is his name. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 1 Hear this word, O house of Israel, this lament I take up concerning you: 2 "Fallen is Virgin Israel, never to rise again, deserted in her own land, with no one to lift her up." 3 This is what the Sovereign Lord says: "The city that marches out a thousand strong for Israel will have only a hundred left; the town that marches out a hundred strong will have only ten left." [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 4 This is what the Lord says to the house of Israel: "Seek me and live; 5 do not seek Bethel, do not go to Gilgal, do not journey to Beersheba. For Gilgal will surely go into exile, and Bethel will be reduced to nothing." 6 Seek the Lord and live, or he will sweep through the house of Joseph like a fire; it will devour, and Bethel will have no one to quench it. 7 You who turn justice into bitterness and cast righteousness to the ground 8 (he who made the Pleiades and Orion, who turns blackness into dawn and darkens day into night, who calls for the waters of the sea and pours them out over the face of the land-- the Lord is his name-- 9 he flashes destruction on the stronghold and brings the fortified city to ruin), 10 you hate the one who reproves in court and despise him who tells the truth. 11 You trample on the poor and force him to give you grain. Therefore, though you have built stone mansions, you will not live in them; though you have planted lush vineyards, you will not drink their wine. 12 For I know how many are your offenses and how great your sins. 13 Therefore the prudent man keeps quiet in such times, for the times are evil. 14 Seek good, not evil, that you may live. Then the Lord God Almighty will be with you, just as you say he is. 15 Hate evil, love good; maintain justice in the courts. Perhaps the Lord God Almighty will have mercy on the remnant of Joseph. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 16 Therefore this is what the Lord, the Lord God Almighty, says: "There will be wailing in all the streets and cries of anguish in every public square. The farmers will be summoned to weep and the mourners to wail. 17 There will be wailing in all the vineyards, for I will pass through your midst," says the Lord. 18 Woe to you who long for the day of the Lord! Why do you long for the day of the Lord? That day will be darkness, not light. 19 It will be as though a man fled from a lion only to meet a bear, as though he entered his house and rested his hand on the wall only to have a snake bite him. 20 Will not the day of the Lord be darkness, not light-- pitch-dark, without a ray of brightness? [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 21 "I hate, I despise your religious feasts; I cannot stand your assemblies. 22 Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings, I will not accept them. Though you bring choice fellowship offerings, I will have no regard for them. 23 Away with the noise of your songs! I will not listen to the music of your harps. 24 But let justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never-failing stream! 25 "Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings forty years in the desert, O house of Israel? 26 You have lifted up the shrine of your king, the pedestal of your idols, the star of your god-- which you made for yourselves. 27 Therefore I will send you into exile beyond Damascus," says the Lord, whose name is God Almighty.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]AMOS 4, 5.
[/FONT]

ShieldOFaith · Nov 7, 2007

happydance said:
I don't believe you just wrote that.
Utter nonsense. With that kind of logic, God is behind everything.

continued...

Please read:

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 1 Woe to you who are complacent in Zion, and to you who feel secure on Mount Samaria, you notable men of the foremost nation, to whom the people of Israel come! 2 Go to Calneh and look at it; go from there to great Hamath, and then go down to Gath in Philistia. Are they better off than your two kingdoms? Is their land larger than yours? 3 You put off the evil day and bring near a reign of terror. 4 You lie on beds inlaid with ivory and lounge on your couches. You dine on choice lambs and fattened calves. 5 You strum away on your harps like David and improvise on musical instruments. 6 You drink wine by the bowlful and use the finest lotions, but you do not grieve over the ruin of Joseph. 7 Therefore you will be among the first to go into exile; your feasting and lounging will end. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 8 The Sovereign Lord has sworn by himself--the Lord God Almighty declares: "I abhor the pride of Jacob and detest his fortresses; I will deliver up the city and everything in it." 9 If ten men are left in one house, they too will die. 10 And if a relative who is to burn the bodies comes to carry them out of the house and asks anyone still hiding there, "Is anyone with you?" and he says, "No," then he will say, "Hush! We must not mention the name of the Lord." 11 For the Lord has given the command, and he will smash the great house into pieces and the small house into bits. 12 Do horses run on the rocky crags? Does one plow there with oxen? But you have turned justice into poison and the fruit of righteousness into bitterness-- 13 you who rejoice in the conquest of Lo Debar and say, "Did we not take Karnaim by our own strength?" 14 For the Lord God Almighty declares, "I will stir up a nation against you, O house of Israel, that will oppress you all the way from Lebo Hamath to the valley of the Arabah."
[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 1 This is what the Sovereign Lord showed me: He was preparing swarms of locusts after the king's share had been harvested and just as the second crop was coming up. 2 When they had stripped the land clean, I cried out, "Sovereign Lord, forgive! How can Jacob survive? He is so small!" 3 So the Lord relented. "This will not happen," the Lord said. 4 This is what the Sovereign Lord showed me: The Sovereign Lord was calling for judgment by fire; it dried up the great deep and devoured the land. 5 Then I cried out, "Sovereign Lord, I beg you, stop! How can Jacob survive? He is so small!" 6 So the Lord relented. "This will not happen either," the Sovereign Lord said. 7 This is what he showed me: The Lord was standing by a wall that had been built true to plumb, with a plumb line in his hand. 8 And the Lord asked me, "What do you see, Amos?" "A plumb line," I replied. Then the Lord said, "Look, I am setting a plumb line among my people Israel; I will spare them no longer. 9 "The high places of Isaac will be destroyed and the sanctuaries of Israel will be ruined; with my sword I will rise against the house of Jeroboam." [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 10 Then Amaziah the priest of Bethel sent a message to Jeroboam king of Israel: "Amos is raising a conspiracy against you in the very heart of Israel. The land cannot bear all his words. 11 For this is what Amos is saying: "'Jeroboam will die by the sword, and Israel will surely go into exile, away from their native land.'" 12 Then Amaziah said to Amos, "Get out, you seer! Go back to the land of Judah. Earn your bread there and do your prophesying there. 13 Don't prophesy anymore at Bethel, because this is the king's sanctuary and the temple of the kingdom." 14 Amos answered Amaziah, "I was neither a prophet nor a prophet's son, but I was a shepherd, and I also took care of sycamore-fig trees. 15 But the Lord took me from tending the flock and said to me, 'Go, prophesy to my people Israel.' 16 Now then, hear the word of the Lord. You say, "'Do not prophesy against Israel, and stop preaching against the house of Isaac.' 17 "Therefore this is what the Lord says: "'Your wife will become a prostitute in the city, and your sons and daughters will fall by the sword. Your land will be measured and divided up, and you yourself will die in a pagan country. And Israel will certainly go into exile, away from their native land.'"
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]AMOS 6,7.
[/FONT]

KomissarSteve · Nov 7, 2007

ShieldOFaith said:
Please go call all the people who lost someone in the 9/11 attacks. Go see someone from the Katrina disaster. Go hang out with someone in SoCal fires. Ask them how funny the GOD-SMACK was. Go!

I hope you'll repent this statement and ask God for forgiveness.

Brothers and Sisters, is it TIME FOR WRATH???

Is it Time to start Preaching the Wrath of God???

Yes! Preach the Word!!! Wrath is part of God's message.

No. I do not think this is good for God's people or heathen.

Maybe, I'm not sure if we need to go this harsh.

Not yet. We should hold off for a few more years.

I am a heathen and hate this kind of preaching.

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