Bringing our problems down to earth.

essentialsaltes · Oct 10, 2018

Probably none. Fortunately, I know science is not the proper tool for deciding where to take the spouse for dinner on our anniversary, or for the other personal problems I face.

It's like that old adage about 'if your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail'.

One should use tools suitable to the task at hand.

OldWiseGuy · Oct 10, 2018

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
I'm the same with sleep. It's a mix of the lights around my house are too bright and I also go to bed too late to feel rested (which doesn't help when work has me having to get up at 6 in the morning). I've bought a sleep mask though and that does help somewhat.

Hang blackout shades on the windows and plug up any other light leaks.

DogmaHunter · Oct 10, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
Pursuant to another discussion concerning problems, of the most pressing problems in your life, how many can be solved by science?

How many by changes in behavior by yourself or by others?

Just to give a heads-up to those engaging in this thread....

In another conversation going on now, presumably the one referenced in the OP, @OldWiseGuy is claiming that the "problem" of earth quakes with resulting tsunami's that kill thousands, are at least the indirect result of "bad human behaviour".

Pretty much the equivalent of certain american preachers claiming things like Hurricane Katrina being the wrath of God on america for allowing abortion/gay marriage/insert-anything-they-disapprove.

OldWiseGuy · Oct 10, 2018

DogmaHunter said:
How do you know what changes in behavior would yield wich results?

Most problems have obvious solutions. If one is sleepy and tired during day they should probably get more sleep and rest. I suffer from this often. Just last night I hit the couch early, didn't drink my nightly beer, and slept late. I feel great this morning. Works every time.

DogmaHunter said:
How do you obtain the knowledge required to realise that certain types of behavior are not the way to go?

The topic is recognized problems. Of course people can't address problems they are unaware of.

OldWiseGuy · Oct 10, 2018

DogmaHunter said:
Just to give a heads-up to those engaging in this thread....

In another conversation going on now, presumably the one referenced in the OP, @OldWiseGuy is claiming that the "problem" of earth quakes with resulting tsunami's that kill thousands, are at least the indirect result of "bad human behaviour".

Pretty much the equivalent of certain american preachers claiming things like Hurricane Katrina being the wrath of God on america for allowing abortion/gay marriage/insert-anything-they-disapprove.

Just a heads up. I said no such thing.

DogmaHunter · Oct 10, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
Most problems have obvious solutions. If one is sleepy and tired during day they should probably get more sleep and rest. I suffer from this often. Just last night I hit the couch early, didn't drink my nightly beer, and slept late. I feel great this morning. Works every time.

So, that is your "major problem"? That you feel tired sometimes?
Seriously?

Nice attempt at dodging the obvious...

I'll take the same example as I did in that other thread, which you also very carefully walked passed without addressing: asbest.

It's not exactly obvious that asbest causes cancer.
So, how do you find out the causal link between asbest and certain types of cancer?

The topic is recognized problems. Of course people can't address problems they are unaware of.

They also can't address recognized problems of which the cause is unknown.

essentialsaltes · Oct 10, 2018

DogmaHunter said:
Just to give a heads-up to those engaging in this thread....

In another conversation going on now, presumably the one referenced in the OP, @OldWiseGuy is claiming that the "problem" of earth quakes with resulting tsunami's that kill thousands, are at least the indirect result of "bad human behaviour".

Interesting. It can be humbling to know that huge impersonal natural catastrophes are uncontrollable. Enough so that one can delude oneself into believing that they are under our control, potentially. Then the continued indifference of natural disasters to our pleas are simply signs of our moral failure. Kind of messed up, if you ask me.

DogmaHunter · Oct 10, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
Just a heads up. I said no such thing.

Except that you most definatly did:

DogmaHunter said:
Myeah, I was thinking more along the lines of actual problems like famines, desease, overpopulation, overconsumption etc.

OldWiseGuy said:
All those problems have a spiritual component at the root.

DogmaHunter said:
What's the "spiritual" component of earthquakes destroying entire towns and the resulting tsunami killing thousands more?

OldWiseGuy said:
The rebellion of Lucifer and the subsequent destruction on the earth resulting in 'plate tectonics'; fractured pieces of earth's crust banging into each other. Of course God will put a stop to this when people stop worshipping Lucifer. So even that is a moral issue.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Oct 10, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
Hang blackout shades on the windows and plug up any other light leaks.

I have good thick, dark blinds that go all the way down on the window, but it still doesn't help. I unplug all my electronic devices before I go to bed. It still does nothing.
It's the stupid hardware store behind my house with it's big 'get lost!' lights, and the housing estate behind us too with their street lights.

As I said though, the sleep mask helps somewhat.

OldWiseGuy · Oct 10, 2018

DogmaHunter said:
So, that is your "major problem"? That you feel tired sometimes?
Seriously?

Nice attempt at dodging the obvious...

I'll take the same example as I did in that other thread, which you also very carefully walked passed without addressing: asbest.

It's not exactly obvious that asbest causes cancer.
So, how do you find out the causal link between asbest and certain types of cancer?

They also can't address recognized problems of which the cause is unknown.

So let's limit the discussion to problems that we know about; causes and cures.

OldWiseGuy · Oct 10, 2018

DogmaHunter said:
Except that you most definatly did:

You've made my case. It was the immorality of a spirit being that caused the damage to earth, not humans, although we seem to trying to finish the job.

OldWiseGuy · Oct 10, 2018

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
I have good thick, dark blinds that go all the way down on the window, but it still doesn't help. I unplug all my electronic devices before I go to bed. It still does nothing.
It's the stupid hardware store behind my house with it's big 'get lost!' lights, and the housing estate behind us too with their street lights.

Bummer.

OldWiseGuy · Oct 10, 2018

DogmaHunter said:
So, that is your "major problem"? That you feel tired sometimes?
Seriously?

I've actually solved most of my problems. Now I have the experience to advise others:

"Always do the right thing. This will surprise your boss, anger your friends and family, and totally confuse everyone else."

Warden_of_the_Storm · Oct 10, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
Bummer.

Yeah, it's not fun.

DogmaHunter · Oct 10, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
So let's limit the discussion to problems that we know about; causes and cures.

Ok.

Yes, for problems that we know everything about and don't need to learn anything extra, we don't need any additional scientific input.

DogmaHunter · Oct 10, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
You've made my case. It was the immorality of a spirit being that caused the damage to earth, not humans.

Read the parts that I bolded. Especially the second to last sentence.

DogmaHunter · Oct 10, 2018

OldWiseGuy said:
"Always do the right thing. This will surprise your boss, anger your friends and family, and totally confuse everyone else."

"...and in doing so, you won't get any cancers, hernia's, .. nore will you ever get injured in any natural disaster that might be passing your way,..." etc?

OldWiseGuy · Oct 10, 2018

DogmaHunter said:
Ok.

Yes, for problems that we know everything about and don't need to learn anything extra, we don't need any additional scientific input.

You're making the "perfect the enemy of the good".

OldWiseGuy · Oct 10, 2018

DogmaHunter said:
Read the parts that I bolded. Especially the second to last sentence.

Sure.
"All those problems have a spiritual component at the root.

Rebellion of Lucifer
Rebellion of man.

"Of course God will put a stop to this when people stop worshipping Lucifer. So even that is a moral issue."

I should have stated it differently such as , when God puts an end to Lucifer worship, at the end time, then the earth will be healed.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, or worship. More people on earth imitate (worship) the rebellion of Lucifer than they do of God. Many religions are an outright rebellion against the true God. Even within Christianity is a desire for a more 'liberal' set of dogma's, that mimic the attitude of Lucifer.

OldWiseGuy · Oct 10, 2018

essentialsaltes said:
Probably none. Fortunately, I know science is not the proper tool for deciding where to take the spouse for dinner on our anniversary, or for the other personal problems I face.

It's like that old adage about 'if your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail'.

One should use tools suitable to the task at hand.

Absolutely. There are many tools besides science; good advice of others, intuition, experience, love (charity, discernment, moral duty), and of course the 'obvious solution' to any particular problem.

Bringing our problems down to earth.

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