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We don't consider the BSA to be a religious organization but rather a civic organization. When they are operating within one of our congregations they are expected to conduct themselves in a manner consistent with Christian teaching. By accepting and embracing openly gay members they can no longer operate in our congregations in a way consistent with Christian teaching.
In a sense it's similar to, say, the phone company. We don't consider the phone company to be a religious organization or else we'd have to insist tat they also operate in a way consistent with Christian teachings when doing business with us. But that's quite impractical. It's probably a given that the phone company employs openly gay people. So, I guess that the WELS and it's members had better disconnect their telephone service lest they be guilty of breaking their broad interpretation of Biblical fellowship. "Have nothing to do with them."
And I find the Lutheran Pioneers goal of "encouraging fellowship with Christians" rather laughable. It encourages no such thing. Rather, it encourages extreme exclusivity and only fellowship with other WELS Lutherans because the rest of Christianity isn't good enough for them.
It might be a valid comparison if you look past the part about LCMS not believing the BSA to be a religious association. I'm not sure how an organization that makes its members swear an oath to God is not religious though.
It also shows a gross misunderstanding of the fellowship doctrine that the WELS believes.
How about here?
I was making a point of comparison. Again, read the post before responding.
Pioneers is how we encourage Christian fellowship amongst our members. There are other venues we use to share the gospel. You misunderstand our fellowship doctrine if you believe that we think that one must believe just as we do for us to share the gospel.
I'd rather be where the WELS is now versus the "middle ground" that DaRev says the LCMS has. As I said, look at the conundrum the LCMS is in because of their stance. It is certainly not an enviable position.
Yeah I did, and I thought your "point" was silly and just out to ridicule. You KNOW that the Wels would NOT consider the phone company a religious organization.
Sort of like trying to win an argument by saying "IF you do THIS [and then come up with some mind blowing and outrageous idea] I'll win"...a no brainer, really.
And yet they consider the BSA a religious organization. That's the point I was trying to make. But I guess bashing the LCMS is Okay in your eyes. No one has ridiculed us in this thread... right?
DaRev, please show me where our fellowship doctrine says we can't have anything to do with people who don't believe as we do.
Ill give you a hint: you won't be able to because you're wrong. You're making up something and then selling it as something we believe when in reality we don't.
Again, I'm not the one whose synod is all embroiled in this. You are. And no one has mocked or ridiculed the LCMS. Everything in this thread, with perhaps an exception for the whole apology thing (which is actually from a LCMS member) has been a factual statement about the LCMS.
I know I haven't tried to make up stuff about what you believe the way you have with the WELS.
You're a smart and passionate theologian but when it comes to WELS theology you got it wrong.
Then you aren't doing a very good job of presenting WELS fellowship doctrines, because it sounds just like "unless you believe exactly what we do we can have nothing to do with you."
Members of the WELS on this board say otherwise. Example: the BSA.
Call me another name and I'll report you. But thanks for proving my point. I've said nothing against the LCMS other than that they are embroiled in this, that I believe it is because of your fellowship stance and that I don't envy anyone in the LCMS. Exactly HOW is that mocking or insulting? Why don't you post what I've written that you think is mocking or insulting?Are you kidding me?? Have you read anything on this thread? Are you that daft??
Your ability to hold grudges astounds and saddens me.I just apply what you all have said on this board in the past.
I haven't really talked about WELS fellowship doctrines in this thread. And I've laid out the doctrine before, quite clearly. Let me reiterate:Then you aren't doing a very good job of presenting WELS fellowship doctrines, because it sounds just like "unless you believe exactly what we do we can have nothing to do with you."
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