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Paradoxum

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Thanks for taking the time to reply to me, but when I ask why it is wrong I don't mean to ask what the Bible says or what church authorities say. I want an argument for why it is wrong. I know many Christians appeal to the Bible solely for their morality (or so they think), but now base my morality on trying to base it on basic principles and arguing rationally from them.

I think it is a fair point that someone saved my not be able to continually sin, but is that really the case? I don't know.


I wouldn't equate being born again with saying a prayer nor being baptised. It is the inner transformation, whenever that is. If there is no inner transformation what is the point in using the word born again which implies a change? I guess you might think something magical and undetectable happens at baptism, but I see no reason to think this, especially infant baptism. If there is nothing different about a real Christian other than having gone underwater then its probably not worth it.

Sorry if that sounds a bit too confrontational.


I have spoken in tongues before. I still can, which does make me question if it really is tongues or perhaps it proves I still am Christian. More likely is perhaps that the act of tongues is physical and but meaning spiritual.

Did you feel any different or see the world any different after you think you were born again? If different, how different?
 
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Nails74

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As I believe the Bible to be God's word, I understand that this is where objective morality originates...from The Creator.

Look at it from the other side...in an atheistic worldview, lying, cheating, and stealing are neither right or wrong. There is no moral "should and shouldn't". Why? Because when you remove God, you remove the standard by which objective moral truth is established...morality is up for grabs.

I think it is a fair point that someone saved my not be able to continually sin, but is that really the case? I don't know.
I am not saying that Christians never sin...sanctification is a process. What I am saying is that I am no longer a slave to sin...because I have been set free.

Don’t you know that if you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of that one you obey —either of sin leading to death or of obedience leading to righteousness? But thank God that, although you used to be slaves of sin, you obeyed from the heart that pattern of teaching you were transferred to, and having been liberated from sin, you became enslaved to righteousness. [Romans 6:16-18]

Someone that goes back to the same sin again and again, continually, without regard for the One who saved them by taking the punishment for their sin...has not been regenerated.

I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. I will place My Spirit within you and cause you to follow My statutes and carefully observe My ordinances. [Ezekiel 36:26-27]
 
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...I have spoken in tongues before. I still can, which does make me question if it really is tongues or perhaps it proves I still am Christian.
A Christian is anyone who has received the Spirit, and he never leaves us in this life.

Did you feel any different or see the world any different after you think you were born again? If different, how different?
I don't see the World differently, I see myself differently, I have what the people of the World are seeking but not finding. I have this treasure in an earthen vessel so I tune into God daily by praying in tongues and getting face to face with people (and on the 'net) to see who wants what God offers.
God blesses my undertaking.

You seem to be in limbo, to appreciate your potential & calling you should do as God recommends and get involved with people who are doing the right thing - church like the New Testament describes.
 
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razeontherock

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Realize this is THE single most difficult issue for many many believers! And especially women, and especially here in the States, have been taught by our society that sex is somehow wrong, or even dirty. You can see where that has brought us: our "social pendulum" has swung too far the other way, and our society is hyper-sexualized. (Or at least many sectors within it are)

Are you familiar with the parable of the rich young ruler? Matthew 19. It's very short; take a minute to refresh your memory. You are young, and it's pretty likely a lot of people find you attractive. Put yourself in this parable! (Along these lines) What does God require? To literally "give all that you have to the poor" to follow Him, so that you're left destitute? I don't believe that was our Lord's message to the person in that parable. I think that would be hyper-literalizing it. What Jesus did, was "put the finger of God" right on his main weakness. Also notice that this person came to Christ boasting in his own righteousness, as if there was nothing God could require of him he couldn't do.

He went away sorrowful. Does that mean he never followed Jesus? Does that mean he had his pride broken, and came to humble himself before the Lord which is the only way any of us can approach Him, in Spirit and in Truth? We simply aren't told. I hope I have made it clear how YOU don't need to literally "go away sorrowful," never to see the Lord again except to meet His condemnation on the last day.

It's important for you (for all of us) to learn what God's view of sex is, and to recognize it's healthy. It's like following a manufacturer's recommended guidelines for product use He sees it as pure, wholesome, part of Holiness; just not the ultimate glorified be-all and end-all of everything that so many try to make it out to be. Christianity =/= taking a vow of chastity. It is God working in you (us) both to will and to do of His good pleasure - and us working out what He puts in us.

You will note that provision for forgiveness has already been made. Rejecting Christianity because of our humanity (sexuality is part of being human) is kinda like a piece of wood rejecting paint. In some applications, wood needs paint. (Let's not go into how some prefer varnish to paint, and how that might apply to the analogy here )

Realize you're not alone:

(1 Cor 10:13) There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it]."



In short, the whole human family is in this together!
 
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razeontherock

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This is a reasonable stance You want to understand this world you find yourself living in. I urge you to turn towards Him not only in your effort, but as the main way of making this effort. I suggest you need a definition of G-d: the power it took to put the Earth under your feet.

Who better to help you understand things you don't yet understand? (And again, we're all in the same boat)

I think it is a fair point that someone saved my not be able to continually sin, but is that really the case? I don't know.

DISCLAIMER: what I'm about to say, will be refuted by some. That's ok. Taken as intended, it's still a strong point. That which is spirit is spirit, and that which is flesh is flesh. (Note that this is directly related to your thread topic, of being born again)

Our Spiritual entity, the "new (wo)man," is not going to sin. Our flesh certainly does. This leaves us caught in the middle, in a contradiction, a contest of wills, and en epic clash. It's a marathon race, not a sprint. Does this mean that Jesus gets out of the car as soon as you drive 1 k.m.h. over the speed limit? (Or whatever example you can think of of the most trivial stepping over the bounds of the law)

It comes down to making a conscious choice, to walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh. This should be your name's sake, since it is full of paradoxes! It is simultaneously the hardest thing any of us can ever do, and a light burden, an easy yoke. It is the most rewarding thing any of us will ever do, and yet this world will call us fools for what we miss out on. We labor, to enter into that rest ...


This can make Lutherans get all huffy, having a pet theology challenged like that - but it's perfectly Scriptural:

"And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins. (Matthew 3:7) But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:"

Dead ritual is just that - dead.

I have spoken in tongues before. I still can, which does make me question if it really is tongues or perhaps it proves I still am Christian. More likely is perhaps that the act of tongues is physical and but meaning spiritual.

If I may, don't worry about "proving you're still a Christian." There is simply no frame of reference for any thought like this, Biblically. If you want to "make your calling and election sure," 2 Peter 1 shows you how. And praying in tongues has nothing to do with it

I urge you to break away from teachings of man that you already realize don't make sense, and to use the noggin' God gave you. Praying in tongues is indeed a physical act, and since it has a Spiritual "dimension" to it, it is but one way to bring these 2 realms together. If you do that (unite Spirit with flesh) by every means available to you, things will become clearer.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it
 
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