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Women's ordination has been around for 40 years, with many decisions in support of this change at all levels. Many who disagree decided to leave their province and the Communion rather than go along with the decisions of the Church. Do you think that decisions haven't been made? No decision will please everyone after all.
BTW, I have been fascinated about this discussion that local bishops have too MUCH power. Of course, in the US, the suggestion is often that the Presiding Bishop and the national organizations have too much power, and the local bishops have too little power. IMHO, if the local bishops had more authority and power, Bishop Lawrence and the others would not have been kicked out or forced out of TEC and out of the Communion. Or, alternatively, if the local bishops had more power, perhaps they would have been brought TEC and the Communion to its knees decades ago.
The Anglican Communion is in paralysis. Anglicanism in the US is simply many, many schismatic churches plus the TEC that they have been attempting to destroy for almost 50 years. IMHO, it was not the ordination of women and homosexuals in the 70's that has crippled TEC. It is the lack of acceptance of those decisions and the walking out by so-called traditionalists that have been much more problematic. IMHO, the true heretics are a small minority and would have marginalized long ago had the so-called traditionalists stayed in the Communion.
Emergent, you can play that game with someone else.
Haha yeah I'm actually not at all. I guess it was an insult, but some people would definitely take it as a compliment.I haven't noticed that Adam Warlock is especially an Emergent, but I am.
It's the lawsuits that I find particularly unsettling and saddening.
On one side there are parishioners who have gone to the same church all of their lives and wish to continue in the same building, vestments, and establishment. It is all they have known, and despite the change in affiliation they are the same congregation. :-(
On the other side most of that property is in trust with TEC, and to disassociate from TEC and still retain the property would remove it from future generations within TEC and be, by conventional definition, theft.
Despite any "theological protection" or "victory," schism is lose-lose for everyone involved. It brings out the worst in good people over property and identity, and rarely solves theological hardships.
Bishop Lawrence spoke to a packed house at our church this evening.
The Diocese of The Protestant Episcopal Church of South Carolina and its Bishop Lawrence have been recognized and accepted by the Southern primates (GAFCON) by letter from its primates to the bishop. All parishes and parishioners are no longer members of TEC. There will be a convention November 17 to remove all mention of TEC from the constitution and canon of The Protestant Episcopal Church of South Carolina. I would note that this is the 3rd time this diocese has left. The first was after the Revolutionary War. The second was because the diocese supported slavery and the Confederacy. The third is over the issues of same sex blessings and recognition of the rights of transsexuals.
So, this means that GAFCON recognizes two bishops as having jurisdiction in coastal South Carolina. GAFCON has recently recognized ACNA as being a US province with jurisdiction throughout the US.
Perhaps this will be a moot point when the Diocese and bishop eventually join ACNA, which will not happen anytime soon. He, the diocese, and the parishes will have many lawsuits to deal with and some unhappy parishioners and parishes to deal with for the foreseeable future.
As of now, there are no members of TEC in coastal Carolina, one of the founding diocese of The Episcopal Church.
I would expect that the Presiding Bishop will soon appoint an interim bishop and perhaps help any parishes that want to stay in TEC call a diocesan convention. I would expect the Bishop of Upper South Carolina to me supportive in this matter, even as he has been supportive of efforts to reconcile Bishop Lawrence and the Presiding Bishop.
This is the most frustrating part of the whole matter. The higher ups bicker and fight and the parishioners are caught in the cross fire. Why are the parishioners suddenly, without any decision on their part, no longer part of the TEC?
Bp. Schori is using a very wide broom to clean out any possible opponent. The shame of this is that Bp. Lawrence, from 'day one,' was seeking to REMAIN, with his people, IN the Episcopal Church while not compromising the historic structure and beliefs of Episcopalians. TEC tolerated Bp. Spong but can't live with Bp. Lawrence (or the other nine who are scheduled for expulsion next).
I don't think it is helpful to try and scapegoat PB Schori
If Bishop Lawrence wants to leave in good faith then let him come forward and make an honest attempt/offer to the TEC. If wants to join ACNA thats fine.
Again you raise the issue of women's ordination to a level it does not deserve. The Church made its decision: women's ordination is acceptable but not to be forced on the provinces.
The Church decided that this was a pastoral issue for provinces to decide. I understand that some would like more definitive actions from our instruments. And so they will have if any issues come before it where actual heresy is involved. If TEC truly taught that the Resurrection wasn't a historical event, or if a church body taught that bishops were no longer necessary, then perhaps the Communion should take more definitive action.
In most of the Communion lay power at all is either a very recent thing (or in much of Africa say, still non-existent). One could, I suspect, find a strong correlation between the rise of synodical governance and the breakdown in relationships. And in what period of Anglican thinking has there been much inter-bishop power?
You seem to be mourning a structure that has never existed in the Anglican Church.
You can say that she's correct in what she's doing...or you can say she's the boss, like or not. But you cannot say--and be fair and accurate--that anyone is scapegoating her. No matter how you cut it, no one thinks she's having the blame cast upon her when it's really someone else's doing. She is the instigator and completely in charge of what's going on.
And what if he does NOT? Sure you can make a case if this were his objective but he promised that he would not do so when he was elected the bishop of South Carolina, and there is not one scintilla of evidence that he now or ever aspired to join ACNA. Even the panel that backed Bp. Schori's action against him was unable to allege that, which is why it had to turn to something less specific (de facto abandoment of communion for not prohibiting everyone from asking about relations between the diocese and the national church at the diocesan convention).
This is the most frustrating part of the whole matter. The higher ups bicker and fight and the parishioners are caught in the cross fire. Why are the parishioners suddenly, without any decision on their part, no longer part of the TEC?
I'm starting to get lost. There is no question but that Bishop Lawrence cannot abide by the canons of TEC. He walked specifically because he could accept two of the changes made in the last General Convention.
He DID NOT "WALK."
Let's at least keep this factual and not a spin competition between Lawrence backers and Lawrence opponents.
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