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Rick Otto

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Whoa! A hot newbie slams this thread shut! lol
Nice post. Mind if I call ya "Edgy"?
 
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Steve Petersen

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This squares perfectly with the context of the passage cited in the OP.
 
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ivebeenshown

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I'm just not sure how a thing can be infallible. Things are generally inanimate.
Paper with words written on them are inanimate, but almost everyone here calls Scripture infallible.

Do you believe that Jesus, aka THE LORD, our perfect God, is going to give ANYONE the ability to make an INCORRECT decision regarding 'binding and loosing', considering that very decision is going to have a direct effect on heaven, aka the perfect place where the Father dwells?
 
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sunlover1

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Paper with words written on them are inanimate, but almost everyone here calls Scripture infallible.
Because it's not the "paper with words written on them" that we refer to.
We're referring to His Word which is very much alive and active.

Do you believe that our God desired Stepford kids?
 
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Rick Otto

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Because it's not the "paper with words written on them" that we refer to.
We're referring to His Word which is very much alive and active.


Do you believe that our God desired Stepford kids?
Amen;
John.6 3 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
 
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SummaScriptura

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It is difficult to render Mat. 16:19 and Mat. 18:18 into English, but not impossible. The resulting verb tense does not roll off the tongue well and requires some thought. Isn't it amazing how God requires us simple ones (and this all too often foolish one, (I speak of I)) to think things out?

Here is a pretty literal take on Mt. 18:18 in English from Young's Literal Translation:

"Verily I say to you, Whatever things ye may bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever things ye may loose on the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens." (YLT)

The part of this verse that cannot be translated into English without interpretation is the "binding" and "loosing" part. It was a phrase used within Judaism to describe what a rabbi does. When a rabbi "binds" in his teaching, he forbids a thing, when a rabbi "looses" in his teaching, he permits a thing.

Rabbi Yeshua binds: "It shall not be so among you!"

Rabbi Yeshua looses: "Do not stop him!"

It is truly amazing how many wrong-headed ideas have originated due to the poor state of this verse in translation in the history of the Church.

All things considered, I still feel the Amplified handles the overall situation best:

"Truly I tell you, whatever you forbid and declare to be improper and unlawful on earth must be what is already forbidden in heaven, and whatever you permit and declare proper and lawful on earth must be what is already permitted in heaven."
 
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ivebeenshown

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Because it's not the "paper with words written on them" that we refer to.
We're referring to His Word which is very much alive and active.
God's Word is not found in writings alone. But the doctrine of 'Sola Scriptura' does indeed refer to paper with words written on them, aka Scripture.
Do you believe that our God desired Stepford kids?
This isn't dodgeball...
 
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ivebeenshown

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The paper with God's Words on them lead us to receive Christ. Sola Scriptura folk are the only folk who benefit from the subject of the matter. Not those who are idolators and follow men's teachings.
Ouch. Anyways, you might want to watch yourself. I won't report you or anything, but around here you're not supposed to insinuate that your fellow brethren who profess One, Triune God are idolaters or un-Christian.

By the way, isn't the table of contents in your bible extra-scriptural?
 
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razeontherock

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Not rightly dividing. People make incorrect decisions all the time, about practically everything. (And clearly that includes all facets of the RCC)
 
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Fencerguy

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Sorry, but that doesn't work either. The NT scriptures are not perfect.

Forgive me..
You need not be so apologetic friend...lol


What in the NT Scriptures are imperfect? That would seem to introduce an almost insufferable amount of doubt as to the validity of our faith?
 
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Fencerguy

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Not rightly dividing. People make incorrect decisions all the time, about practically everything. (And clearly that includes all facets of the RCC)


Clearly people are not infallible......but how does that render one's teaching fallible?
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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You need not be so apologetic friend...lol


What in the NT Scriptures are imperfect? That would seem to introduce an almost insufferable amount of doubt as to the validity of our faith?

Hey Fencerguy,

Do you really fence? I always wanted to try that.

What day it was... that kind of thing. It doesn't impact our faith at all. We really don't have a problem with the idea that we need the Apostolic Churches to explain some things. In fact... if the gospels all lined up perfectly I think we would be more suspicious.

There's nothing wrong that just throws everything out the window. However it's not perfect.

Matthew, Mark and Luke say that the 'day of preperation' for the Jewish Passover was the day of the last supper.

St. John says the 'day of preperation' was the day Christ died on the cross.

It can't be both.

It can have an effect on theology, and while it is an important point to consider for correct understanding... it is not salvitic in nature nor is it dogmatic.

Forgive me...
 
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razeontherock

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What in the NT Scriptures are imperfect? That would seem to introduce an almost insufferable amount of doubt as to the validity of our faith?

This is an important point to get past! Ortho brought up one, clear example of such an instance. Doubters can raise all sorts of issues, with an "aha!" mentality, thinking they're playing gotcha. Of course they are being the devil's advocate - literally.

We can brush all that foolishness off. Our Faith is Living, and based on the Living Word Himself. (Not some dusty book. Not some mortal's teaching, either
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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You need not be so apologetic friend...lol

Oh, you have no idea how much I neet to apologize.

Every time I open my mouth I offend someone somewhere.

Idle words could very well be my downfall.

Forgive me...
 
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Fencerguy

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Hey Fencerguy,

Do you really fence? I always wanted to try that.

I do indeed, seven years....look up a club in your area, its an incredibly intoxicating sport!!


So really its just a question of the humanity of the Scriptures....not that they containt significant, theologically relevent errors, but that they have enough influence from the human portion of their authorship that we can trust their overall validity....
 
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Fencerguy

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Oh, you have no idea how much I neet to apologize.

Every time I open my mouth I offend someone somewhere.

Idle words could very well be my downfall.

Forgive me...

Haha, if we never offended anyone (even other individuals on here) would we really be the "salt of the earth" that we are called to be?

I still don't see what you have to apologize for
 
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