Big question.

CoreoAF · Dec 27, 2004

I think some of us think that our choice plays a different partin our salvation. For instance, an Arminian might beleive that their choice determines their salvation. A Calvinist, on the other hand, beleives that Christ's death and ressurection absolutely secured their salvation, and therefore, that their choice determines nothing, but that Christ determines what they will choose. We all still choose, that is undeniable, because we all did it once, didn't we? We chose to trust God and forsake our former lives. Calvinists beleive that we can only do so if God allows us to. This doesn't mean we have no choice. What it does mean, is that our choice does not supercede the will of God.

Why do Christians always pretend that they don't fall into a classification? There's no shame in being classified, and it doesn't mean you're not Christian. If my dog is in Kingdom Animalia but also Class mammalia, she is still an animal, right?

onajourney87 · Dec 27, 2004

CoreoAF said:
Calvinists beleive that we can only do so if God allows us to. This doesn't mean we have no choice. What it does mean, is that our choice does not supercede the will of God.

Hmm...

I think it is quite clear from Scripture that all are allowed to choose God or not.

If you are in your totally depraved state, you simply won't choose God. Not because God isn't allowing you to choose Him, but because you simply won't choose Him.

If God has imputed His grace to you as a member of His elect, you will simply will choose God. Not because God isn't allowing you to not choose Him, but because you simply will choose Him because of His imputed grace.

Perhaps that is what you were saying, just in different terms... perhaps not... Or perhaps you were refering to the sovereingty of God... perhaps not...

osm

CoreoAF · Jan 3, 2005

If I understand correctly, your paraphrased exactly what I said. I said, we do have a choice, but God's choice is above our choice. So, well said! God bless you

elman · Jan 4, 2005

Walker-Texas-Ranger said:
I have been really struggling with the teachings of Calvinism lately. I have been reading Romans, and have come upon some, seeming to be, Calvinistic verses. I have been doing alot of thinking, and it has really been bringing me down:
1. according to Calvin (and possibly these verses), we have no free will, so God has predestined everything. So that means that my life, and everyone else's life is just being run by some big, "Puppet master" in heaven.
2. I did not choose God, He choose me. My friend John on the other hand, God did not choose. So God created him for the sole purpose of sending him to hell? So God chooses only some people? I thought he loves everyone, if He did, why wouldn't He just, "Choose" everyone?
3. If God preordained everything, wouldn't that make him the author of evil?

This has really been on my mind lately friends, I do not know what to think, is God really just picking and choosing everyone based on nothing?
So Jesus only died for some?
Whats the point of going out and preaching? If God only picks and chooses a select (or elect) few, where does evangelism come into play?
What are some other verses that point to different teachings?
I just want to know the truth and serve God the way the Bible teaches.
I hope someone can help me, I feel as if I'm at dead end.

I think Calvin is wrong. Most of the Bible seems to say clearly God created us with the ability to love Him and each other. Matt 25:31 and following is one of the scriptures that tells us we can love and if we do Jesus will give us the grace to be with God. My problem with Predestination is God is Love and a loving God would not create someone just to have someone to toturte in hell. That is not a lovable God and God is loveable. Therefore Calvinism must be incorrect. Ezekiel 18 is another scripture that clearly teaches we are responible for our own sin and not someone else's sin. I don't understand how sin can even exist in a world without free will. Sin is a failure to chose to love. The typical response of a calvinist to this is you think you can earn your own salvation. That is incorrect. I do not think that and I agree that I must have grace to be given eternal life with God. That does not mean I hae to believe that God forces anyone to come to Him. He invites all. He forces none. It is not a question of grace verses works. It is grace and works and neither alone.

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