"Biden Deserves Credit, Not Blame, for Afghanistan"

RDKirk · Aug 31, 2021

hedrick said:
Failure to grant visas was a longstanding mess. Troubled Visa Program for Afghan Interpreters May Do 'More Harm Than Good,' Study Finds
It’s very unlikely that Biden could have fixed it in a couple of months.

So either he had to extend our stay for an indefinite time or live with the fact that Afghanis we should have rescued would be left behind. I’m not sure what I would have decided. There are things a president can simply order and they happen, and things he can’t. Telling troops to leave he can order. Making the State Department efficient he can’t.

You can certainly argue we should have stayed until we could fix the program, or ordered a huge fleet to take anyone out of Afghanistan who claimed to worked for us (while taking over the whole road system to get them to the airport). I won’t argue with either. But sometimes there is no good alternative.

The only Afghan group I think really create an obligation for the US are the interpreters and their immediate families. They could certainly have been removed along with the units they were embedded with and placed in an intermediate location like the UAE until processed by the State Department.

Inasmuch as those people would have already been vetted for security by the DoD, their processing should be easily expedited. Both State and the DoD work for the president--the president could make all that happen.

Pommer · Aug 31, 2021

RDKirk said:
Inasmuch as those people would have already been vetted for security by the DoD, their processing should be easily expedited. Both State and the DoD work for the president--the president could make all that happen.

Or at least help them find asylum in some other country that would be happy to have new taxpayers, eventually, probably.

.Jeremiah. · Aug 31, 2021

Sketcher said:
Deflecting blame isn't positive, and the last two weeks were a national tragedy with Biden on watch and not doing all that he could to mitigate it. Whether it was failure or disinterest, or how much of each remains to be seen.

You’re right

Since you say so.

But, on the other hand, the last two weeks were quite positive, imo.

The terrorists have now departed Afghanistan and the country can resume taking care of their own business.

Sketcher · Aug 31, 2021

.Jeremiah. said:
You’re right

Since you say so.

But, on the other hand, the last two weeks were quite positive, imo.

The terrorists have now departed Afghanistan and the country can resume taking care of their own business.

If that's the way you think, please exchange places with one of the Americans who wants to get out.

.Jeremiah. · Aug 31, 2021

Sketcher said:
If that's the way you think, please exchange places with one of the Americans who wants to get out.

Lol

You have an innate knack of dismissing anyone who may possibly disagree with you in the very least.

Sketcher · Aug 31, 2021

.Jeremiah. said:
Lol

You have an innate knack of dismissing anyone who may possibly disagree with you in the very least.

Only to the dismissible.

.Jeremiah. · Aug 31, 2021

Sketcher said:
Only to the dismissible.

Thank you for exposing your true character.

Blade · Aug 31, 2021

Did we see all the Taliban soldiers in FULL USA GREAR? I mean EVERYTHING.. did we see the AMERICAN CHOPPER Taliban flying with the man hung flying around> Did we watch as one said it "horrible videos emerge from Afghanistan"..these are women speaking english. Oh this is nothing. Did we see the video of the Taliban sholdier showing off all the TANKS and other thing they have? Yeah not one of them are the so called "good guys". They let out over 5000 prisoners how many thousand were ISIS fighters?

The FACT we know Biden was warned about this months ago. We always ...oh so so so so sad hear about the 13 soldiers yet not the other hunderds that were also killed.. not just men but women and many children. All of this is 100% on Joe Biden.. but I don't see nothing happening. We've seen for years how most of the left can say almost anything as in lie.. even right in front of Congress and nothing happens. Who stepped down?

Oh.. Trump? With out TRUMP right now whats going in the world NOT being reported? N KOREA started up with NUKES again.. sorry didn't ANYONE tell you? How about IRAN? Russia/China are working VERY HARD with Afghanistan to get some of that 85 billion equipment Biden left them.. you know "we left them toys to play with if they wanted".

HAHA the world was scared of president Trump.. man the DEMS were scared of Him before he ever took office. Yet if he said something he did it! Now look at the USA! We all see the writing on the wall..NOW Is the time to do ANYTHING America won't do much if anything at all.

President Trump would have talked to each family member that lost a loved one. Go watch what Trump said as of late when he heard about those 13 AND the others that were killed there. WOW Nothing like Biden said. Then checking his watch? What does he have to do?

What if the person behind the screen really calling the shots is? HARRIS! So what if Biden steps down.. NOTHING will change. We best be praying..

revybub · Aug 31, 2021

Fantine said:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...rves-credit-not-blame-for-afghanistan/619925/

Plain and simple. He did this horribly wrong. You don't remove your troops out till your people are out first. Now we have people stuck there and suffering. One of the worst mistakes make by a president in the last 20 years.

I respect people who do the right thing even when it's not the popular thing. No other president had the courage to disentangle us from Afghanistan, including the Trump officials who strengthened the Taliban with their concessions and left Biden to clean up the mess.

I agree that no one predicted that the 300,000 man Afghan Army, trained and financed by the U.S., would collapse within days--even when we left equipment there to help them defend their government. And I put the blame on them. It is completely illogical to think that 300,000 American trained and funded soldiers with billions of dollars of high powered equpment could cave in a week.

I would like to see a little more of that spine in Biden in the future. On voting rights, on ending the filibuster---at least for something as important as saving our democracy. He needs to remember that the last president with his legislative experience--LBJ--was able to negotiate the Voting Rights Act that the Supreme Court shamefully shredded. LBJ enacted Medicare, Medicaid, and the Great Society.

And now, 60 years later, our society sure doesn't look so "great," when domestic terrorists storm state capitols and the U.S. Capitol to throw their weight around, when rogue governors thumb their noses at public health and threaten and coerce the school districts and businesses who care about the children and customers they serve. It doesn't look so great when we are the only industrialized nation without universal health care.

Our democracy has been under attack and there are those who would hijack it. We need a good legislative negotiator--but we need courage even more.

And so God bless you, President Biden, for your courage, for your willingness to take the heat from alt-right wing news networks. Keep it up.

hedrick · Sep 1, 2021

Pommer said:
Left spin: Biden’s brilliant foreign policy plan bought us another three months to get out of “Dodge”, making sure that we had incapacitated everything we had still left over there, (that it was ours to destroy).

Right-Spin: Trump (had been rightly reinstalled as President (for life) [just kidding!], he would have made the Taliban back down and give us another three years to withdraw, thereby securing a Nobel Peace Prize (that OBAMA got for “being Obama!)).

Biden’s exit was hardly brilliant. It’s just not obvious there was a better alternative.

Maria Billingsley · Sep 1, 2021

Fantine said:
He negotiated the exit--but had Trump completed it, there would be at least 116,000 more Afghan citizens who assisted us in the war effort who would still be in Afghanistan, in danger of imprisonment and possibly even execution.

This is a very important fact that many will forget. Steven Miller would never allow any Afghan to leave the country.
Ex-Pence Aide: Stephen Miller’s “Racist Hysteria” Made It Harder for Afghan Allies to Get Visas | Democracy Now!

RDKirk · Sep 1, 2021

hedrick said:
Biden’s exit was hardly brilliant. It’s just not obvious there was a better alternative.

The most significant single thing he could have done differently would have been to time the withdrawal to complete by May...either last May or next May. Timing the withdrawal to complete by the beginning of spring would have kept the Taliban immobilized by winter weather and out of the picture. I suspect that the "30-90 days" window was predicated on a May withdrawal.

wing2000 · Sep 1, 2021

"Unlike his three immediate predecessors in the Oval Office, all of whom also came to see the futility of the Afghan operation, Biden alone had the political courage to fully end America’s involvement."

I agree.

The question every American must ask themselves is:

Why did we allow our political leaders to keep our troops in Afghanistan so long?

All voting Americans are accountable.

durangodawood · Sep 1, 2021

Sketcher said:
The buck stops with ......

That's an end-of-thinking platitude.

Arcangl86 · Sep 1, 2021

He deserves both. He does deserve credit for sticking to his plan to leave Afghanistan and the sheer achievement of how many people he evaced in a short time. But it was also more chaotic and disorganized then it should have been.

Brihaha · Sep 1, 2021

Sketcher said:
I agree.

This has no bearing on Biden's mishandling of Afghanistan.

Biden's actions and results speak much louder than your own perceptions! We Americans deserve results, not tweets. Biden delivered. It's one reason he was elected over the great bloviator.

iluvatar5150 · Sep 1, 2021

Fantine said:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...rves-credit-not-blame-for-afghanistan/619925/

I agree that no one predicted that the 300,000 man Afghan Army, trained and financed by the U.S., would collapse within days--even when we left equipment there to help them defend their government. And I put the blame on them. It is completely illogical to think that 300,000 American trained and funded soldiers with billions of dollars of high powered equpment could cave in a week.

One argument I've heard and am inclined to agree with is that the Afghani people will likely do better under a rapid collapse than they would under the alternative. Who would have been served by the Afghan military holding out for a year or two before capitulating? We Americans would've had time to effect a more orderly retreat and we would've had some more political cover to say "oh well, we tried," but the Afghani people would've been subject to more years of war before eventually having the taliban take over anyways..

ThatRobGuy said:
You do realize it's not just alt-right outlets he's getting heat from about this right?

I think this is one of the few times you'll find outlets on both sides of the fence in agreement about something, which is, Biden botched this one.

Wanting to get out of Afghanistan was a noble goal, but the way he did it was short-sighted, and withdrawal before the the regional threats were amply suppressed just means that it'll become another terror factory again, and us and our allies will just have to end up going back in again in a few years.

Maybe this time around, we can listen to the people who attack us when they tell us why they attack us, and we can stop doing the things that motivate them to engage in terrorism.

friend of said:
Afganistan would not have been what it now is, under Trump

Yeah, it probably would've been worse. Trump's timetable was shorter, his visa process more stymied, and his administration notably more dysfunctional.

Pavel Mosko said:
He prevented them from getting visas because the conservative end of the country was sick and tired of the country being flooded with illegal aliens, as well as legal green card holders etc. competing with US job holders etc. Not to mention other incidents of the past: dealing with Muslims like grooming gangs, the major Assan shooting and other incidents that happened in Iraq and Afghanistan.

SIV's have nothing to do with any of that, but congratulations on pointing the finger at your favored president and your conservative colleagues for not being able to tell the difference.

Blade said:
Did we see all the Taliban soldiers in FULL USA GREAR? I mean EVERYTHING.. did we see the AMERICAN CHOPPER Taliban flying with the man hung flying around

No, we saw Taliban wearing gear and flying a helicopter that had belonged to the Afghan military (that's why the helicopter had an Afghan military insignia on the side). And the man hanging from the helicopter was alive and waving to people - they'd been trying to hang a flag.

> Did we watch as one said it "horrible videos emerge from Afghanistan"..these are women speaking english. Oh this is nothing. Did we see the video of the Taliban sholdier showing off all the TANKS and other thing they have? Yeah not one of them are the so called "good guys". They let out over 5000 prisoners how many thousand were ISIS fighters?

I have not seen anything about the Taliban seizing tanks.

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN · Sep 1, 2021

wing2000 said:
"Unlike his three immediate predecessors in the Oval Office, all of whom also came to see the futility of the Afghan operation, Biden alone had the political courage to fully end America’s involvement."

I agree.

The question every American must ask themselves is:

Why did we allow our political leaders to keep our troops in Afghanistan so long?

All voting Americans are accountable.

For some people, I think it's a lack of paying attention. Since it's not happening in our country. Other people want to stay there 20 plus years. To control Afghanistan. And have it be like the United States.

rambot · Sep 1, 2021

friend of said:
Afganistan would not have been what it now is, under Trump

I totally agree....but likely for very different reasons.

wing2000 · Sep 1, 2021

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:
For some people, I think it's a lack of paying attention. Since it's not happening in our country. Other people want to stay there 20 plus years. To control Afghanistan. And have it be like the United States.

And part of the reason Americans are not paying attention to foreign deployments -- very few of us are directly impacted.

"Biden Deserves Credit, Not Blame, for Afghanistan"

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