Biblical discernment

rubicontwentytwelve · Oct 3, 2011

razeontherock said:
Does it matter? Maybe, at some point, to some. The big point is seeking first His Kingdom! Then "all these things" will be added unto you ... hmmm, is there any application here?

...interesting thought order you have here..... Hold onto THAT!

" Then "all these things" will be added unto you " .......

You've undoubtedly heard...'line upon line, ...precept upon precet'...? You keep going with those precepts!

durangodawood · Oct 3, 2011

rubicontwentytwelve said:
...interesting thought order you have here..... Hold onto THAT!

" Then "all these things" will be added unto you " .......

You've undoubtedly heard...'line upon line, ...precept upon precet'...? You keep going with those precepts!

So its not really important in exploring Christianity to accept the whole Bible as historical fact? You can proceed exercising your own best discernment about whats myth and whats literal.... so long as youre earnestly seeking the Kingdom of God?
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durangodawood · Oct 3, 2011

(and by the way, thanks for taking the time to discuss, all of you).
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razeontherock · Oct 3, 2011

durangodawood said:
So its not really important in exploring Christianity to accept the whole Bible as historical fact? You can proceed exercising your own best discernment about whats myth and whats literal.... so long as youre earnestly seeking the Kingdom of God?
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My point is growth is a process. What's important is that you start with "the real thing," even if it's merely a speck like a mustard seed. As long as it's alive it'll grow! That can take many forms, and I indeed would go so far as to say that each believer has their own. I think different denoms can serve those different needs, and Scripture makes it clear we grow "from Glory to Glory."

What I think there can be no room for compromise on, is the essence of my username: dig down through the sifting sand, and get to the solid bedrock of Christ He is the real thing!

Now, who's the guy born in '49 in your avatar? Is he playing a guitar or a bass?

TheGMan · Oct 3, 2011

I think "myth" is quite a modern idea. I doubt that the Semitic scribes who penned the books of the Bible thought they were writing it. That said, I doubt they thought that they were recording literal truth either.

Certain parts of the Bible seem to be adaptations of much earlier Sumerian and Akkadian literature - Genesis 1 or 7, for instance. But they've been adapted to express something about early Jewish theology. The message is not in the blow-by-blow details but what the scribe was trying to express by changing it. But this is not quite the same as saying it is myth.

My own view - which I would hate to claim is shared by any well-defined subset of Christians - is that not one book in the Bible really measures up to modern standards of accurate reportage - a genre which didn't exist when it was written. Even the later episodes of the Books of Kings, thought to be written by a roughly contemporary source, were written to put a particular slant on events, to convey a theological message about G-d's relationship with Judah.

If we try to read the Bible as if it was modern reportage we do it a disservice.

durangodawood · Oct 3, 2011

razeontherock said:
My point is growth is a process. What's important is that you start with "the real thing," even if it's merely a speck like a mustard seed. As long as it's alive it'll grow! That can take many forms, and I indeed would go so far as to say that each believer has their own. I think different denoms can serve those different needs, and Scripture makes it clear we grow "from Glory to Glory."

What I think there can be no room for compromise on, is the essence of my username: dig down through the sifting sand, and get to the solid bedrock of Christ He is the real thing!

Now, who's the guy born in '49 in your avatar? Is he playing a guitar or a bass?

That would be Phil Lynott, of Thin Lizzy. His statue in Dublin.
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razeontherock · Oct 3, 2011

Looks an awful lot like my P-Bass, except he's got a J pickup as well. (Which is what I bought it to do, but people convinced me it would be sacrilege to cut it up so I didn't)

What year is his, do you know?

oi_antz · Oct 3, 2011

durangodawood said:
There's no way that can be the price of admission to understanding Jesus.
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You have it back to front, it isn't a price to pay, it is a gift received to have faith enough that God is that powerful.

durangodawood · Oct 3, 2011

razeontherock said:
Looks an awful lot like my P-Bass, except he's got a J pickup as well. (Which is what I bought it to do, but people convinced me it would be sacrilege to cut it up so I didn't)

What year is his, do you know?

Not the slightest idea. I am drummer!
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durangodawood · Oct 4, 2011

oi_antz said:
You have it back to front, it isn't a price to pay, it is a gift received to have faith enough that God is that powerful.

Even if he IS that powerful, the tales still ring of human mythmaking, like the creation myths of other cultures.
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razeontherock · Oct 4, 2011

So where'd the ideas come from?

oi_antz · Oct 4, 2011

durangodawood said:
Even if he IS that powerful, the tales still ring of human mythmaking, like the creation myths of other cultures.
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razeontherock said:
So where'd the ideas come from?

+1

Any idea durangodawood?

durangodawood · Oct 4, 2011

razeontherock said:
So where'd the ideas come from?

The origin of myth?
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I dunno. I'm sure anthropologists have some good ideas. But without doubt, lots of myths in various cultures are "just" myths, right? We all agree? Maybe a wise shaman invented a tale long long ago and it eventually took form as the Navajo creation myth?
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razeontherock · Oct 4, 2011

durangodawood said:
But without doubt, lots of myths in various cultures are "just" myths, right? We all agree?
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Let's narrow that down a bit. For the moment, let's only consider the sub-set of "myths" that overlap, meaning many different cultures from around the globe convey the same idea. (Even if they don't seem to on the surface)

One example of this might be a flood story. I've heard there are some 200 of them, world wide, and many have at least some strikingly similar features including names and # spared.

Let's also not even consider whether some tales might be factual or not, as that gets messy. First let's just consider the idea; where'd it come from?

durangodawood · Oct 4, 2011

razeontherock said:
Let's narrow that down a bit. For the moment, let's only consider the sub-set of "myths" that overlap, meaning many different cultures from around the globe convey the same idea. (Even if they don't seem to on the surface)

One example of this might be a flood story. I've heard there are some 200 of them, world wide, and many have at least some strikingly similar features including names and # spared.

Let's also not even consider whether some tales might be factual or not, as that gets messy. First let's just consider the idea; where'd it come from?

I think a lot of the Greek mythical Gods are personifications of both natural and internal-psychological forces.
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I'd expect flood myths where it typically floods: rivers, deltas, seacoasts (tsunami) etc, the typical starting places for civilizations. Volcano myths near volcanos. And so on.
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I suspect that the internal-psychological forces we all experience would be rich soil for germinating myth, in the hands of shamans, priests, etc.
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SO,
Where do you think the ideas come from?
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ViaCrucis · Oct 4, 2011

durangodawood said:
How do Christians discern which parts of scripture are to be understood as myth (fictions with teaching/revelatory value) and which parts literally happened?
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A large part is seeking to understand the context, including literary context. A psalm is a psalm whereas an epistle is an epistle. Another aspect of this is try and understand culture and how a text would be intended by its author/authors/redactors/compilers and received by its primary audience. Trying to understand how a bronze age people from the ancient near east thought about the world and how they would have recorded and passed along information and the various kinds of information becomes crucial.

In the end there is no quick and easy method. Other factors that come into play are how the Christian Church has historically understood various portions of Scripture. For example, in the case of the first chapter of Genesis there have been two positions historically, one is an allegorical approach and the other is a literal approach. St. Augustine is the classic example of the allegorical understanding of Genesis 1, while someone such as St. Basil the Great of the literal understanding. Another example would be the Gospels, the universal position of the Church has always been that Christ really did die and that He really did rise from the dead, physically. The latter example being fundamental and foundational to the entire Christian faith as received down through the ages with the former being more of a peripheral matter; and at the end of the day a lot of the basic theology doesn't change much, i.e. that God is the Creator, and that He has ordered and ordained purpose in creation (whether instantaneously as per Augustine's reckoning or over the course of six twenty-four hour periods as in the reckoning of some of the other Fathers and modern Young Earth Creationists) and that He made it very good.

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