Beware - Shepherd's Chapel Eschatology - false doctrine!

Swordsmanoffaith · Sep 19, 2010

What does the Shepherd's Chapel teach? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
http://carm.org/shepherds-chapelold

You may have noticed some false teachings that originate with Arnold Murray of the Shepherd's Chapel on this Eschatology forum.

Some of their false beliefs include:

1. Satan had sex with Eve, resulting in Cain.
2. Decendants of Cain are "Kenites"
3. Denies bodily resurrection
4. Denies rapture - condemns those who believe in rapture as following satan
5. American and the UK are the lost tribes of Israel.
6. There was a race of people before Adam and Eve

Arnold Murray also has anti-semetic and implicitly racist teachings as well, including the idea that Noah is not the Father of humanity since the flood but there were other races of people stowed away with the animals on Noah's ark.

Swordsmanoffaith · Sep 19, 2010

Mat 7:16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

1whirlwind · Sep 19, 2010

Swordsmanoffaith said:
What does the Shepherd's Chapel teach? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
Shepherd's Chapel | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

You may have noticed some false teachings that originate with Arnold Murray of the Shepherd's Chapel on this Eschatology forum.

Some of their false beliefs include:

1. Satan had sex with Eve, resulting in Cain.

That is written.

2. Decendants of Cain are "Kenites"

That is written.

3. Denies bodily resurrection

I have no idea what that is about??? Do you have any more info?

4. Denies rapture - condemns those who believe in rapture as following satan

There is NO pre-trib rapture...it is written. We are only given two choices in this life. We follow Christ or the loser.

5. American and the UK are the lost tribes of Israel.

Where do you think they went?

6. There was a race of people before Adam and Eve

There was. It is written.

Arnold Murray also has anti-semetic and implicitly racist teachings as well.

Again...do you have some proof? What has he said? What has he taught?

Fireinfolding · Sep 19, 2010

We have to be careful to accuse no man falsely, otherwise we become false accusers.

Swordsmanoffaith · Sep 19, 2010

1whirlwind said:
That is written.

That is written.

I have no idea what that is about??? Do you have any more info?

There is NO pre-trib rapture...it is written. We are only given two choices in this life. We follow Christ or the loser.

Where do you think they went?

There was. It is written.

Again...do you have some proof? What has he said? What has he taught?

You could not be more wrong.

It is written nowhere in the Bible that satan had sex with Eve.

It is written nowhere in the Bible that satan is Cain's father - in fact, it specifically says that Adam is Cain's father.

It is written nowhere in the Bible that Kenites are descendants of Cain.

It is written nowhere in the Bible that Cain's descendants survived the flood.

So, there's one who follows Shepherd's Chapel teachings, in direct opposition to the Word of God. Where are your friends?

lilmissmontana · Sep 19, 2010

Swordsmanoffaith said:
What does the Shepherd's Chapel teach? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
Shepherd's Chapel | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

You may have noticed some false teachings that originate with Arnold Murray of the Shepherd's Chapel on this Eschatology forum.

Some of their false beliefs include:

1. Satan had sex with Eve, resulting in Cain.
2. Decendants of Cain are "Kenites"
3. Denies bodily resurrection
4. Denies rapture - condemns those who believe in rapture as following satan
5. American and the UK are the lost tribes of Israel.
6. There was a race of people before Adam and Eve

Arnold Murray also has anti-semetic and implicitly racist teachings as well.

Am I correct that you're asking everyone to believe Arnold Murray is all the things you claim he is by what's on that link?

Once again ... just for the record ... this is completely offensive.

soo ... the way to prove your right is by using another man's accusations? ... wow :o

and so ... our belief doesn't line up with yours ... so that makes us all those things you claim? ... wow

sooo ... let me get this straight ... the way to win a debate or discuss theology is to just start slamming out insults? ... wow :o

well, you don't have to worry about this one any more ... I'm out of this forum ... wow ...

Swordsmanoffaith · Sep 19, 2010

At the "rapture", when the church is removed, bodies of the dead in Christ will come up out of graves, they will be changed and so will those who are alive and we will all be caught up to Jesus, to the throne of God in heaven. So says Scripture on the matter:

1 Cor 15:51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

1 Thess 4:14We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage each other with these words.

Isa 26:19 Thy dead [men] shall live, [together with] my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew [is as] the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Isa 26:20¶Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

Revelation 7:9After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10And they cried out in a loud voice:
"Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb." 11All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12saying:
"Amen!
Praise and glory
and wisdom and thanks and honor
and power and strength
be to our God for ever and ever.
Amen!"

13Then one of the elders asked me, "These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?"
14I answered, "Sir, you know." And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Fireinfolding · Sep 19, 2010

It speaks of being of the wicked one as was Cain, but God had also said to Cain

Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

The wording is sorta similiar

Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

1John 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

In the context of both loving one another and working righteousness (as shown elsewhere as well) even God says to Cain, if thou DOEST WELL will you not BE ACCEPTED?

Worded much the same way in James...

James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye DO WELL

1John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

1Cr 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

1John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1whirlwind · Sep 19, 2010

Swordsmanoffaith said:
You could not be more wrong.

It is written nowhere in the Bible that satan had sex with Eve.

Sure it is...you just don't yet have the eyes to see.

It is written nowhere in the Bible that satan is Cain's father - in fact, it specifically says that Adam is Cain's father.

Then one would wonder why Cain's genelogy is given separately. One would also question if Jesus was lying to us when He said....

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

It is written nowhere in the Bible that Kenites are descendants of Cain.

Kenites # 7014 ~ Qayin, the same as 7013 (with a play upon the affinity to 7069) Kajin, the name of the first child, also of a place in Pal, and of an Oriental tribe; - Cain, Kenite (s)...#7017 patron; from 7014; a Kenite or member of the tribe of Kajin - Kenite.

It is written nowhere in the Bible that Cain's descendants survived the flood.

Sure it is. Not only Kenites but two of all races. Surely you don't think all races came from Noah?

Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

There it is established that man is a living thing of "flesh," and he also has the breath of life and we come in pairs...male and female. So when we read.....

6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

7:15-16 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life. And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.

We understand....two of all flesh was kept alive. Sunday school classes teach it was only elephants, tigers and bears walking up the plank two by two. But now 'ya know the truth.

Remember too....the seed of the serpent, which are the tares, weren't to be touched. There is enmity between children of God and the others until the last days when the angels pluck out the tares. So, of course they were on the ark.

So, there's one who follows Shepherd's Chapel teachings, in direct opposition to the Word of God. Where are your friends?

Have I quoted anyone or have I given you Scripture? I follow no man and try to never be in opposition to His Word.

Am I to assume that somewhere above is an apology of some sort for false allegations? Or, shall I expect some proof at a later date?

.

Swordsmanoffaith · Sep 19, 2010

You have offered no Biblical proof - none at all - that Kenites are descendants of Cain.

And your racist rant on "two of all races" went into the ark is offensive. All races are descendants of Noah, just as the Bible teaches.

Gen 7:23And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained [alive], and they that [were] with him in the ark.

Gen 9:1And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

Gen 9:19These [are] the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread.

1Pe 3:20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

2Pe 2:5if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;

lilmissmontana · Sep 19, 2010

Swordsmanoffaith said:
There's number two. When a person stands on the Word of God, they have the Truth on their side so there's no reason to run and hide.

I have nothing to prove to you ... and so now you've decided the intent of my heart is to run and hide ... more wow!

but, I am back ... I spoke for myself ... I should've waited for the Lord to decide on that ...

1whirlwind · Sep 19, 2010

Swordsmanoffaith said:
At the "rapture", when the church is removed, bodies of the dead in Christ will come up out of graves, they will be changed and so will those who are alive and we will all be caught up to Jesus, to the throne of God in heaven. So says Scripture on the matter:

1. There is NO pre-trib rapture. So says Scripture
2. Those "dead in Christ" are already out of their graves. We're already caught up to Him...so says Scripture.

1 Cor 15:51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

1 Thess 4:14We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage each other with these words.

Isa 26:19 Thy dead [men] shall live, [together with] my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew [is as] the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Isa 26:20¶Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

Revelation 7:9After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10And they cried out in a loud voice:
"Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb." 11All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12saying:
"Amen!
Praise and glory
and wisdom and thanks and honor
and power and strength
be to our God for ever and ever.
Amen!"

13Then one of the elders asked me, "These in white robeswho are they, and where did they come from?"
14I answered, "Sir, you know." And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Notice that they "come out of the great tribulation." They weren't raptured away.

11 Thessalonians 2:11-12 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Swordsmanoffaith · Sep 19, 2010

1whirlwind said:
1. There is NO pre-trib rapture. So says Scripture
2. Those "dead in Christ" are already out of their graves. We're already caught up to Him...so says Scripture.

Notice that they "come out of the great tribulation." They weren't raptured away.

11 Thessalonians 2:11-12 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

By all means, keep talking. The hole you're digging is already pretty deep. It's quite an education for people here to see what you people believe and how many of you there are.

"Byhisstripes" has arisen in defense of this false doctrine and it's followers too on my personal page.

lilmissmontana · Sep 19, 2010

1whirlwind said:
That is written.

That is written.

I have no idea what that is about??? Do you have any more info?

There is NO pre-trib rapture...it is written. We are only given two choices in this life. We follow Christ or the loser.

Where do you think they went?

There was. It is written.

Again...do you have some proof? What has he said? What has he taught?

1whirlwind said:
Sure it is...you just don't yet have the eyes to see.

Then one would wonder why Cain's genelogy is given separately. One would also question if Jesus was lying to us when He said....

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Kenites # 7014 ~ Qayin, the same as 7013 (with a play upon the affinity to 7069) Kajin, the name of the first child, also of a place in Pal, and of an Oriental tribe; - Cain, Kenite (s)...#7017 patron; from 7014; a Kenite or member of the tribe of Kajin - Kenite.

Sure it is. Not only Kenites but two of all races. Surely you don't think all races came from Noah?

Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

There it is established that man is a living thing of "flesh," and he also has the breath of life and we come in pairs...male and female. So when we read.....

6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

7:15-16 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life. And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.

We understand....two of all flesh was kept alive. Sunday school classes teach it was only elephants, tigers and bears walking up the plank two by two. But now 'ya know the truth.

Remember too....the seed of the serpent, which are the tares, weren't to be touched. There is enmity between children of God and the others until the last days when the angels pluck out the tares. So, of course they were on the ark.

Have I quoted anyone or have I given you Scripture? I follow no man and try to never be in opposition to His Word.

Am I to assume that somewhere above is an apology of some sort for false allegations? Or, shall I expect some proof at a later date?

.

two is for witness ... I'm standing with this person ... may the Lord bless and carry her through with grace, mercy, understanding, patience and all the things He knows to arm her for ... when to bite her tongue and when to remain silent ... in Jesus name ... Amen.

we're never standing alone when we are one of Christs ... God says He will not leave us nor forsake us ...

lilmissmontana · Sep 19, 2010

Swordsmanoffaith said:
By all means, keep talking. The hole you're digging is already pretty deep. It's quite an education for people here to see what you people believe and how many of you there are.

:o

Swordsmanoffaith · Sep 19, 2010

All I ask is that you people quote scripture to prove your point. Apparently, that's offensive.

laconicstudent · Sep 19, 2010

Swordsmanoffaith said:
All I ask is that you people quote scripture to prove your point. Apparently, that's offensive.

When you ask rudely, it certainly is.....

Swordsmanoffaith · Sep 19, 2010

laconicstudent said:
When you ask rudely, it certainly is.....

Are you saying that you also believe that Cain was the son of Eve and Satan?
Are you saying that you also believe that people of color were on the ark with animals, not included as among the humans with Noah?
Are you saying that you also believe that descendants of Cain survived the flood?

Are you throwing your lot in with these people who believe and teach those things?

Swordsmanoffaith · Sep 19, 2010

1whirlwind said:
Sure it is...you just don't yet have the eyes to see.

Sure it is. Not only Kenites but two of all races. Surely you don't think all races came from Noah?

Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

There it is established that man is a living thing of "flesh," and he also has the breath of life and we come in pairs...male and female. So when we read.....

6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

7:15-16 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life. And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.

We understand....two of all flesh was kept alive. Sunday school classes teach it was only elephants, tigers and bears walking up the plank two by two. But now 'ya know the truth.

.

Yes, all races came from Noah.

And your racist rant on "two of all races" went into the ark is offensive. All races are descendants of Noah, just as the Bible teaches.

Gen 7:23And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained [alive], and they that [were] with him in the ark.

Gen 9:1And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

Gen 9:19These [are] the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread.

1Pe 3:20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

2Pe 2:5if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;

1whirlwind · Sep 19, 2010

Swordsmanoffaith said:
You have offered no Biblical proof - none at all - that Kenites are descendants of Cain.

That wasn't proof to you? Kenites...Cain...the first child.

And your racist rant on "two of all races" went into the ark is offensive. All races are descendants of Noah, just as the Bible teaches.

Racist? Rant? Since when is Scripture considered rant? May I ask what is racist about recognizing, gasp, dare I say it...there are various races.

Gen 7:23And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained [alive], and they that [were] with him in the ark.

Yes and...who were "they that were with him in the ark?" Could it be the various races?

Gen 9:1And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

Gen 9:19These [are] the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread.

They certainly did spread over the earth. Does it say...and only they, the sons of Noah, populated the earth?

1Pe 3:20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

The proper translation (KJV) is....

1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Eight souls ( NOT eight people) were saved by water. However, how much "flesh, male and female, two by two, with the breath of life" was saved?

2Pe 2:5if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;

KJV -
2 Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

It is stipulated that Noah, the eighth person, was saved. What of the other people. They aren't mentioned...sons, daughters, wife or flesh couples. After all, we know they were on board.

.

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