Beware of wrong teaching

marke · Nov 27, 2006

IgnatiusOfAntioch said:
Christians in democracies have a moral obligation to get involved and support the moral side of the issues and those candidates which have the courage to stand up for what is right.

Yours in Christ.

Would you please quote the NT scripture to support your claim?

I can't seem to find anywhere anything even close to what you just asserted. In fact, every reference I've found say just the opposite, don't involve yourself with issues of the world because it can cost you your salvation.

So, please. Help us all by posting the basis for your assertion.

Thank you.

God Bless.

marke · Nov 27, 2006

IgnatiusOfAntioch said:
Christians in democracies have a moral obligation to get involved and support the moral side of the issues and those candidates which have the courage to stand up for what is right.

Yours in Christ.

JUST WHAT IS RIGHT?

Let's review --- THESE are the things GOD HATES:

Pro 6:16 These six Jehovah hates; yea, seven are hateful to his soul:

Pro 6:17 a proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

Pro 6:18 a heart that plots wicked plans, feet hurrying to run to evil,

Pro 6:19 a false witness who speaks lies, and he who causes fighting among brothers.

Christians have these attributes.

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control." (Galatians 5:22)

Which scripture seems closer to the truth shown by actions over the past six years?

Need I say more?

God bless.

marke · Nov 27, 2006

Balance said:
I would personally like to know why after this diatrobe you openly show yourself active in politics by posting this thread?

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=29236377#post29236377

Have you lost your Salvation? or are those rules only for political positions you do not agree with?

Am I not allowed to call a spade a spade?

God bless.

Nadiine · Nov 27, 2006

marke said:
Like they did with "W", right?

Let's review --- THESE are the things GOD HATES:

Pro 6:16 These six Jehovah hates; yea, seven are hateful to his soul:

Pro 6:17 a proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

Pro 6:18 a heart that plots wicked plans, feet hurrying to run to evil,

Pro 6:19 a false witness who speaks lies, and he who causes fighting among brothers.

Christians have these attributes.

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control." (Galatians 5:22)

Which scripture seems closer to the truth shown by actions over the past six years?

Need I say more?

God bless.

It sounds as if you think Proverbs there has GWBush's name etched in stone or something?
You quote a verse on the fruit of the spirit (how loving, peaceful, patient & gentle it is), yet go off in angry temper tangents against him & his admin.?

I read your tyrades, and ask, where are yours? It's always easier to look at others & decide what they lack.
You/we should be praying for him rather than tearing him apart & verbally attacking; he can't be reelected anyways. Why this vitriol??

Do some bible study (in both testaments) on who gets into power, GOD PUTS THEM ALL THERE. Maybe the real problem lies there?

pdfiddler · Nov 27, 2006

Marke - I like your style ! You Go Man!

pdfiddler · Nov 27, 2006

Poor Mr. Bush!

marke · Nov 27, 2006

"Jas 4:4 Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God."

Nice quote I saw somewhere. Here is another one along the same lines.

Mat 13:14And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah,which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed;lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
.
Mat 13:18Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

Mat 13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches,choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

This is the point I guess I am not communicating very efficiently. Actually, I did in the OP, but the point got lost in opinions rather than scripture. These issues, outside the church are not your concern. God is in charge according to NT scripture.

Some of you are saying yes, it's our moral duty to vote but where is the NT scripture to back your assertion?

All over the NT it says NOT to get caught up in the world, but it doesn't seem to matter, the scripture gets shouted down by those who want to believe otherwise.

So my friends, let's explore where you find the scripture to support your assertion that you have a moral duty to vote and force your morals on others outside the church.

I don't hold on to my misconceptions and if you can help me come to your point of view with scripture, that just may happen.

I'll look forward to your replies.

God bless.

marke · Nov 27, 2006

You wrote: "You/we should be praying for him rather than tearing him apart & verbally attacking; he can't be reelected anyways. Why this vitriol??

There are those that call this administration "Godly" and the question has to be "Whose God?"

There seems to be some confusion between right and wrong in Pop Christianity today. Opinion vs scripture. Wrong is right instead of scripture right is right. That's what I am trying to address by pointing out scripture rather than my opinion.

The actions of the past six years and the scripture regarding what God hates vs the fruit of the spirit reminds us of what is what.

You write: "Do some bible study (in both testaments) on who gets into power, GOD PUTS THEM ALL THERE. Maybe the real problem lies there?"

I am with you there. And really that's my point again. You correctly assert "GOD PUTS THEM ALL THERE" and then don't trust Him to get it right. Your vote doesn't matter. God puts them all there. Even Saddam. Even Hitler. Even Nero. Their actions prove to be contrary to Christian teaching too, but I wouldn't vote for any of them.

I'm sorry, but one can shout all they want that it is dark outside when the sun is shining, but it doesn't make it true.

God Bless.

Nadiine · Nov 27, 2006

marke said:
You wrote: "You/we should be praying for him rather than tearing him apart & verbally attacking; he can't be reelected anyways. Why this vitriol??

There are those that call this administration "Godly" and the question has to be "Whose God?"

No, it's got NOTHING to do w/ "right wing"/"Left wing", PRAYING FOR YOUR RULER IS A COMMAND to all Christians. As well as, doing good, loving & praying for YOUR ENEMY.

Instead, you write seething posts of contempt & judgment against them trying to rally people up against their leaders. Promoting rebellion, anger, criticism, backbiting & division. Is that biblical?
THEY'RE ALREADY VOTED IN, so what are you actually trying to achieve by it that you can't do in prayer for them?

Dont forget, Conservative/right wing Christians sat under 8

L O N G

years enduring Pres. Clinton - there was plenty of damage done during those 8 yrs that they watched.

Today, the biggest problem isn't even a President! It's JUDGES who legislate from the bench (make law contrary to peoples wishes) & refuse to provide fair justice to all, a well-funded ACLU who fights to keep GOD out while supporting pedophiles like NAMBLA, and a biased mass media/entertainment industry.

There seems to be some confusion between right and wrong in Pop Christianity today. Opinion vs scripture. Wrong is right instead of scripture right is right. That's what I am trying to address by pointing out scripture rather than my opinion.

Uh huh, and is this why your thread tells us that "the Bible tells us not to read the Old Testament? & that the OT is a "fairy tale"?"

I am with you there. And really that's my point again. You correctly assert "GOD PUTS THEM ALL THERE" and then don't trust Him to get it right. Your vote doesn't matter. God puts them all there.

Nope, I'M SAYING GOD CAN & DOES USE THE PEOPLE as the vehicle of the election.
It's the PEOPLE'S vote for releasing Barrabas that got Jesus' crucified.
Don't you think that if God didn't want Jesus to go to the Cross, that He'd of kept every 1 of those people busy elsewhere so they couldn't VOTE against Jesus?

God has a million ways He can orchestrate an election by circumstances...
PEOPLE are a vehicle/means of that process.

You seem to think we should all just SIT around down here & God does it all Himself without any of our interaction or participation. The entire Bible shows us otherwise as God used His people mightily.

This is the point I guess I am not communicating very efficiently. Actually, I did in the OP, but the point got lost in opinions rather than scripture. These issues, outside the church are not your concern. God is in charge according to NT scripture.

Your points didn't get "lost in the opinions" YOUR SCRIPTURES GOT LOST BECAUSE THEY WERE MISSAPPLIED & didn't FIT your case.

I can use any of your quoted verses on ANYONE or ANY group to say the same of them. Does it make it TRUE?
Let's say you LOVED Clinton... Can I use your same verses to make MY points against him. Sure! Would you accept the way I used them against Clinton as TRUTH FROM GOD about him? probly not.

When i disagree with YOUR interpretation of what "being involved in the world" means, whatever verses you use to correct WON'T MEAN A THING TO ME, becuz i know they aren't written to mean what you're using it to say.

Jehovah Witnesses do this - they claim Birthdays are "evil", therefore you can't celebrate birthdays.
THEY GET THAT FROM THE BIBLE- they claim since a birthday was in the Bible and something bad happened on it, that it means ALL birthday celebrations are EVIL/ungodly.

DOES THAT CONVICT ME in celebrating birthdays? NO. They've misused scripture (not rightly dividing it). So their use of that 'birthday scripture" doesn't lead me to see my 'error' or 'sin'.

Always in His Presence · Nov 27, 2006

marke said:
JUST WHAT IS RIGHT?

Let's review --- THESE are the things GOD HATES:

Pro 6:16 These six Jehovah hates; yea, seven are hateful to his soul:

Pro 6:17 a proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

Pro 6:18 a heart that plots wicked plans, feet hurrying to run to evil,

Pro 6:19 a false witness who speaks lies, and he who causes fighting among brothers.

OK - let's really review

marke said:
It's no wonder the NT warns us not to read the Old Testament

So why are you reading the OT?

Brian1040 · Dec 6, 2006

holo said:
That may be true. They didn't manage to change the entire world. I'm glad they tried though, because they had a serious impact. There a lots of black people who have jobs, education, because of them. A lot of people are probably alive as a direct result of Mandela's and King's politic work.

Yes I agree with you on that.

nochurch · Dec 6, 2006

prophecystudent said:
I do not understand the OP purpose. If it is to convince us that Christians have no business getting involved in the governments under which we live, then I disagree.

I have found nothing in the bible, or in teachings, that indicates we are to withdraw from our civic duties.

We MUST get involved in every proper way to see that our elected officials are ones that support our views on things like religion, moral behavior, ethics, etc.

To blindly sit by and wait for God to do it for us is to ignore a basic tenet from scripture.

GOD HELPS THOSE WHO HELP THEMSELVES.

Fred

Hey prophesystudent, I hope your'e doing fine today, I'm new here hoping I can learn some things, I've been reading my KJV Bible a little less than a year and have yet to run across the Scripture that says 'God helps them that helps themselves,' could you please tell me where I can find it? Thank you, much appreciated.

ThinkofHim · Dec 6, 2006

God has no political party. Never forget that. The important thing is to winnow with wisdom. Does what is being offered align with the word? Seek to know truth, over lies and illusions.

Ignore words-they are hollow. Instead, follow the council we are given-what fruits are being grown? Do they serve the principality of the Lord-or of the adversary?

The more lies you see-the more fear mongering-the more manipulation-so grasps the hand of the enemy-shun his works. When you vote-do so for those who have the Lord in them-not the devil.

No matter what "party" they are in.

Nadiine · Dec 7, 2006

ThinkofHim said:
God has no political party. Never forget that. The important thing is to winnow with wisdom. Does what is being offered align with the word? Seek to know truth, over lies and illusions.

Ignore words-they are hollow. Instead, follow the council we are given-what fruits are being grown? Do they serve the principality of the Lord-or of the adversary?

The more lies you see-the more fear mongering-the more manipulation-so grasps the hand of the enemy-shun his works. When you vote-do so for those who have the Lord in them-not the devil.

No matter what "party" they are in.

I agree, God has no political party - but then, God also doesn't live down here on earth... He doesn't drive a car to work, etc. But God does put all political leaders into power & takes them out. (often using us/people as His tool). So I'd say God has purposely put in and/or allowed some evil leaders to take power for His own purposes.

I do try to vote the people in who appear less corrupt than the others or who sit on the moral side of the issues - but that's not always a failsafe with politics. Democracy is our system, but I have little to no faith in MEN to fix anything at this point in time;

I think we're destined to see the Bible's end time prophecies fulfilled more & more rapidly no matter who we vote in (as Christians). And as I read things, NONE OF IT LOOKS GOOD for earth until Christ returns to restore it again & bring back truth & peace.

nochurch · Dec 7, 2006

I have to agree with the starter of this thread, Matt.5:44, But I say unto you, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, & pray for them which despitefully use you, & persecute you. For me, this is the hardest commandment of Jesus especially in everyday life, but I can see where He is coming from.

I cannot see Jesus Christ as either a Roman soldier or as a Roman juror. I cannot even see Christ as a judge in cases involving the law of Moses which He saw fit to reform in nearly every "But I say unto you..." statement which He made on His sermon on the mount

Here is a part of His reformation in that 'sermon on the mount: Matt.6:24, No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to one, and despise the other...

What applies to military service applies to voting & jury duty. I believe one of the greatest trials while in this flesh is to stay aloof from the affairs of this age. The adversary is constantly drawing us into the things which nourish him. He is constantly drawing us into the things of the flesh.

Voting & jury duty is just a less obvious way of being asked to become involved in the things of this world. Very few Christians & almost no ministers are willing to be faithful to the words of Christ in these days of "the war on terror."

Nadiine · Dec 7, 2006

nochurch said:
I have to agree with the starter of this thread, Matt.5:44, But I say unto you, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, & pray for them which despitefully use you, & persecute you. For me, this is the hardest commandment of Jesus especially in everyday life, but I can see where He is coming from.

I cannot see Jesus Christ as either a Roman soldier or as a Roman juror. I cannot even see Christ as a judge in cases involving the law of Moses which He saw fit to reform in nearly every "But I say unto you..." statement which He made on His sermon on the mount

What applies to military service applies to voting & jury duty. I believe one of the greatest trials while in this flesh is to stay aloof from the affairs of this age. The adversary is constantly drawing us into the things which nourish him. He is constantly drawing us into the things of the flesh.

Voting & jury duty is just a less obvious way of being asked to become involved in the things of this world. Very few Christians & almost no ministers are willing to be faithful to the words of Christ in these days of "the war on terror."

But YOU LIVE HERE...

I can't see God as a plumber either, but not being able to picture GOD Himself in an earthy role is no reason to dismiss the role as "bad" or evil.

Don't forget, Christ is "Yhvy/Lord of Hosts/Armies".
And it's GOD who casts people into hell upon judgment. Can you picture God telling the Israelites to kill entire towns? Women & children included?
HE DID.
He also initiated capitol punishment for man. The same God we serve used war. Plus, He comes in wrath in Rev. 1 as judge.

Mal 3, God doesn't change. The same Jesus of the OT is the same Jesus as the new.

If you're going to be completely anti military, as if serving in the military is "evil', then you also have no DEFENSE for safety. (which you currently enjoy at the sacrifice of others).

Did God put us here to be salt? What does salt do? It's an irritant & cleanser. We're supposed to be working against the unsaved to undo or thwart their agenda.
Does God save us so we sit idely by while we watch the unsaved rule over us all becuz we won't lift a finger for things of righteousness? To change sinful laws like abortion? etc.? gay marriage?

In a democracy, I believe we have a duty to vote & be involved to push righteous principles, to speak out against evils.
NOTHING will change unless those of God act to promote what is righteous & shine light.
If you dont' want to be involved, then you have no right to complain about anything around you because they are naturally inclined to sin & corruption & inaction will result in that type of society.

God uses US as His tools/ the means of getting things changed for the better on this earth - just as He used the armies of Israel as His means of getting them the Promise Land.

nochurch · Dec 7, 2006

God bless you, but I don't believe we can do anything to change this world. Eph. 1:11 tells me that God is operating all things after the counsel of His own will.

Yes God uses us as tools, but for His benefit only. In the end it will be all to His credit & all to His glory, Praise Jesus!

As for putting new wine into old bottles, mixing the O.T. with the new, no I don't think so.

Peace be with you.

marke · Dec 7, 2006

Nadine writes: "If you're going to be completely anti military, as if serving in the military is "evil', then you also have no DEFENSE for safety. (which you currently enjoy at the sacrifice of others)."

I trust God to keep me safe and if He chooses to let me come to harm, that is His choice. He is my God.

Where is your faith? Were you not taught that God controls everything. You are not needed for God to get his way.

And God may not have changed, but His agreement with humanity did.

You know, it's funny, sad really. I didn't know God had humans slaughter women and Children. It's no where in the NT. Why? Because there is a new agreement where God doesn't tell people to kill people anymore so they don't become confused.

Come to Jesus. He's the "Prince of Peace" you know.

God Bless.

marke · Dec 7, 2006

nochurch said:
God bless you, but I don't believe we can do anything to change this world. Eph. 1:11 tells me that God is operating all things after the counsel of His own will.

Yes God uses us as tools, but for His benefit only. In the end it will be all to His credit & all to His glory, Praise Jesus!

As for putting new wine into old bottles, mixing the O.T. with the new, no I don't think so.

Peace be with you.

I guess that about says it

Good post.

God Bless.

marke · Dec 7, 2006

nochurch said:
I have to agree with the starter of this thread, Matt.5:44, But I say unto you, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, & pray for them which despitefully use you, & persecute you. For me, this is the hardest commandment of Jesus especially in everyday life, but I can see where He is coming from.

I cannot see Jesus Christ as either a Roman soldier or as a Roman juror. I cannot even see Christ as a judge in cases involving the law of Moses which He saw fit to reform in nearly every "But I say unto you..." statement which He made on His sermon on the mount

Here is a part of His reformation in that 'sermon on the mount: Matt.6:24, No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to one, and despise the other...

What applies to military service applies to voting & jury duty. I believe one of the greatest trials while in this flesh is to stay aloof from the affairs of this age. The adversary is constantly drawing us into the things which nourish him. He is constantly drawing us into the things of the flesh.

Voting & jury duty is just a less obvious way of being asked to become involved in the things of this world. Very few Christians & almost no ministers are willing to be faithful to the words of Christ in these days of "the war on terror."

Another good post!

God bless.

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