Apologetic_Warrior
Pilgrim
- Oct 21, 2003
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- 3,289
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- United States
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- Christian
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Sorry about that, I cleared some messages.
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Off topic. Hey AW! Clear some of your messages in your inbox. I am trying to send you a PM
I wish it were that simple, I wish we could all just read the Bible and come to the same conclusions, it would make things so much easier, but evidently if we believe God is sovereign, if His will is being done, then that wish is not the way that God intended it to be. Evidently the Holy Spirit does not control us in a dictator manner. Ever hear the saying "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions"? I can imagine a young Joseph Smith with a similar approach to being led into truth, and look where it landed him! Had he humbled himself to the teachers and teachings before him, had he thought "maybe these men knew more than I do, and maybe I can learn from them", then maybe we wouldn't have to address the Mormon cult.
Allow me to present another problem:
Let's say person A and person B are both Christians. Now person A and B read a passage of Scripture. Person A comes to conclusion Y and claims the Holy Spirit led them to that conclusion. Person B comes to conclusion Z and also claims the Holy Spirit led them to that conclusion. Now we have two Christians, the Holy Spirit leading both, but both claim the Spirit led them to their conclusions, yet their conclusions do not agree, nor are they compatible, so which one is really led into the truth? We know the Holy Spirit does not lead to people to error, so where or how did the person who though they were led into truth, come to an erroneous conclusion? How will the person who thought they were led into the truth by the Spirit actually ever come to the truth?
Another isssue, does ALL really mean all, does all always mean all? Did the Holy Spirit lead us into the truth about reading, writing, typing, how to use a Windows operating system, how to navigate the internet, how to post on a messageboard? Did the Holy Spirit lead us into the truths of mathematics? Now these are kind of trick questions, because I certainly believe all truth is God's truth and mankind has never surprised God or one upped Him with a truly "original" thought. However, the point here is that the Bible, while it is the standard for truth, the foundation for truth, does not contain "all truth", and while the Spirit knows all truth, we are not controlled by the Spirit in such a manner that we cannot be led astray into error. This is why God has in every age throughout the ages faithfully given us teachers, elders, and leaders to help guide us, to shine light in those dark spots of our understanding, to help us grow in wisdom and understanding.
And obedience comes by and through faith. Without a solid foundation, our faith, and obedience will shake and crumble to pieces. I used to buy into the simple "WWJD?" mentality. But you know what's wrong with it? You and I could never replace Jesus, we could never be like Him, for He is God in the flesh. He knew people's hearts and minds. He could perform miracles at any time of His choosing. We are more like the man who said "Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!".
Well it is simple, that is why we must trust God and not man when it comes to his word. God has given his people the Holy Spirit for a reason in which we should NOT abandoned it.
The Holy Spirit is a comforter, teacher, and a counselor. It gives me visions, revelations, and words of wisdom in my sleep while I am put under a deep sleep/trance by God. I have seen Jesus and heard God speak, so they do exist, but many professing Christians and many other religions do not even know that they are here right now in the heavens watching us due to unbelief.
These are one of the things that I have witnessed. I have experience the Holy Spirit coming upon me like a dove just as Jesus had experienced. This very proof and even other proofs have proven to me that the bible is legit and truth.
I rely on my bible and visions. I don't rely on church congregations or teachers to teach me who claim to know it all.
People should not need to rely on going to church to know the truth. God/The prophets/Jesus/Paul never mentioned in the bible that we have to attend a church in order to make it into the Kingdom of God/heaven.
READ: John 3:16, John 14:6, John 6:44-51, and Ephesians 2:8-9. We are only called to obey God's commandments and we are also called to persevere/endure to the end in order to make it into the Kingdom of God.
I use to think that being a Christian/Catholic was to go to church, to take communion classes, and to do my confessions, but as I got older, I found out that most of the Churches that are promoting heresies and false doctrines are being operated/run by Pagans and Pharisees.
I was completely disillusioned when I became aware of the heresies and false doctrines that are being taught in the churches. I found out from the bible that Christians who are chosen by God are the (church). As Christians, we are God's temple/God's sanctuary/the temple of God. The temple/church of God is not a man made building made by human hands, nor is it made out of gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw. The temple of god is our body, which our body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives/dwells in us, whom we have received from God (1 Corinthians 6:12-20 + 19-20).
READ: 1 Corinthians 3:16-17, Ephesians 1:19-23, and 1 Corinthians 11:3-16.
In (Hebrews 10:25 + Hebrews 10:19-25), it says we are not to forsake the assembly of ourselves together, that doesn't mean we must attend a church, no, it means that you need to gather up with other Christians just as Jesus gathered up with his 12 disciples.
You should gather up with other Christians that does not involve in the churches.
Let me clarify to you what I meant by abandoning the Holy Spirit. I was only referring to those who break the least of the commandments, as to not obey them, and than to turn away from such a gift like the Holy Spirit to follow other Gods/teachings.
MY COMMENT: Yes, I trust the writers of Scriptures because they spoke through the Holy Spirit. Here are some verses to prove my point:
2 Peter 1:20-21 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.
Some might say that the bible is written by man and is not to be taken literally and others might say that the bible is of the devil in which I have to disagree.
What I do know is that the bible is legit because the world at it's state right now is corrupt. There are many false teachers, many false prophets, many false leaders, many false religions, many false Gods, and many false Christ as we speak today. This has come to pass one way or another. So Jesus and Paul were right about this. Also, sin is ever increasing now days. We are living at a time of lawlessness and hardships. The bible points these facts.
MY COMMMENT: No, the holy spirit isn't a person, it's a spirit. Let me describe to you how it appeared to me.
It looks ghostly/shadowy/cloudy/hazy and than it turns into a form of a dove or something else that I just can't describe, that's the only way I can describe it really. When I first received it, it appeared as a form of a dove, and I can feel its presence such as this overjoying feeling or overwhelming sensation being manifested in me/in my body. I felt drunk, as in filled with the Spirit.
It looked magical. It was so awesome.
Now with God, I can't see him. I never seen a form of him. The only thing that I have witness was his still small voice and his touch. I can feel his presence almost every night. If I ask for a hug, he will hug me, but he would draw me to hug him first by taking control of my spirit, and putting me in a hugging position. And if I ask him to give me a back rub, he will, by giving me a back rub while my back is laying on my bed. I know it's strange. It was like he was under my bed or something like that. It's pretty interesting. When it comes to God, it's hard to fathom. I am not sure if it was the Holy Spirit or God comforting me you know. What I do know is that I can't see God, but however, I can see the Holy Spirit's miraculous powers and even signs. Some would say that the Holy is a man, but from what I've witnessed, it was no man at all, other than a ghostly haze.
Now with Jesus, I only see him in my visions, but I haven't seen him in my visions for a year now. He only appeared in my visions less than 7 times, and that was about it. It was so awesome. I do't know if I should tell you how he looks like. The only thing I can tell you is that he is still alive, and that he appears to be transparent (i.e., a ghostly man). His gown is very white and bright like the sun.
I perceive influence of your former teachings in your writing, which I can understand, as it is not easy to undo major changes in how we think. In response, I think the following is important to remember: No Christian can attain perfection in this life (contrary to what John Wesley taught, and the "holiness movement"), so long as we are in bodies of flesh (If you want Scripture references, I can fish them up). It's been said in the Scriptures, that if we break even the least commandment, we're guilty of breaking all. How is it that we can be obedient? Certainly not in or of ourselves. Does obedience not come from faith? Our justification does not come through obedience (not even in O.T. times), it's through faith alone, because whatever is not of faith, is sin (as Paul say's). As for me, I am in desperate need of the mercy of God everyday, and were it not for the grace of God, I too would turn away, were it possible. Out of the overflow of faith, hope, and love, comes obedience. In other words, faith is the cause, obedience is the effect. When I think about this, and my lack of works, at least in my perception, it does worry me, but I hope in the sovereign grace of God. How can I love God on one hand, and turn around and love my sin on the other? It should not be! One day I am a Saint, the next a sinner, what gives? As Keith Green used to sing "Nothing lasts except the grace of God, by which I'm saved...in Jesus, I know that I would surely fall away, except for grace by which I'm saved."
To believe one can completely overcome sin and find 'perfection' in this life is a grave error. It only leads to arrogance and self righteousness. Only when one realizes how worthless, wicked and depraved they are, can they find salvation.
One who believes they are without sin, as John Owen would say "Hath got a new heart, but one that is more cunning, not one that is more holy." Oh how the enemy loves when people get deceived by such thinking.
That's your own opinion, not biblical.
If you have read verse John 5:1-15, Jesus said to the man who he had healed, "Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you.”
That right there is proof that we must stop sinning, or else something worse can happen to us.
What happens when a believer disobeys God? They become cursed.
To learn about curses and plagues, read Deuteronomy 28:15-68 "Curses for Disobedience" and Leviticus 26:14-46 "Punishment for Disobedience".
Also read verse: Revelation 22:18-21.
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FROM THE SAYINGS OF JESUS CHRIST THROUGH THE SCRIPTURES:
Matthew 5:29-30 If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
Obey and keep God's commandments please.
MY COMMENT: Your statement saying that "no Christian can attain perfection in this life" is a broad/generalize statement in which is not biblical, but your own opinion. You're trying to generalize all Christians and saying that none of them can be perfect due to your own observation.
It is true that many aren't perfect due to their carnal/stubborn ways, but there are those that do strive to be perfect, and that includes me. In verse Matthew 5:48, Christ's says, "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." That one verse says it all. You can't refute that and you can't deny that.
Like I stated in my other previous post/comment, there are scriptural proof such as 2 Peter 1:5-9 that says that we must obey, endure, and persevere.
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