Basics of Anabaptism

Danfrey · Aug 20, 2006

You often say that God gave us the right to vote. He must really dislike all of those Christians in countries that don't have the right to vote or he would have given them the right as well.

I would consider my attitude toward government as realistic rather than fatalistic.

What eternal benefit has been gained from Christians voting?

Jehane · Aug 20, 2006

I don't know but here voting is compulsory; you get chased & fined if you are over 18 & you don't. As Govt., is implemented of God & has no power except what He gives it I figure I can vote with a good conscience. Realistically I don't expect anything to actually change being of the opinion that it doesn't matter wh you vote for a politician always gets in. There are very, very few who hold to Christian principles.

ZiSunka · Aug 20, 2006

Danfrey said:
You often say that God gave us the right to vote. He must really dislike all of those Christians in countries that don't have the right to vote or he would have given them the right as well.

Your words, not mine. I would say God gives every society the form of government he thinks is best for them at the time. I don't get where you think I said that God loves some Christians but dislikes others. That may be your opinion, but you don't get to foist it on me.

I would consider my attitude toward government as realistic rather than fatalistic.

Realistic? You have the opportunity to do right and you refuse to do it and you think that is realistic? It reminds me of my grandfather, when I told him I wanted to major in science in college, he told me, "Be realistic. Girls aren't capable of having careers in science." Except in your case it seems to be more like, "Be realistic. Citizens aren't capable of having a say their government."

What eternal benefit has been gained from Christians voting?

I don't know. How can we know that anything we do or don't do has an eternal benefit. We won't know that until we see eternity. Voting against abortion would certainly seem to have an eternal benefit, or voting against homosexual marriage, or voting for school vouchers. If Christians refuse to have input into their own laws and lawmakers, that leaves the unsaved to do all the thinking and speaking for us, and that means people believe we do not object to some very onjectionable things. As far as the morality of this nation is concerned, the person who doesn't vote, doesn't count.

MadFingerPainter · Aug 21, 2006

i can't do my job at work without that frypan.
ya know Menno? ~grin~ i wouldn't hurt a flea. might shake it atcha to scare ya into thinkin i'd belt ya with it though. ~hehe~

MadFingerPainter · Aug 21, 2006

voting against abortion or homosexual marriages may benefit us eternally but i don't honestly believe this will benefit mankind because sooner or later we will get outvoted and it will go into law regardless. before you guys start throwing things at me...
this is just my opinion based on the things i see happening.

Danfrey · Aug 21, 2006

The benefits of voting to make abortion illegal do nothing to address the spiritual state of the mothers involved, other than driving them further away from those "right wing Christians"

Making homosexual marriage illegal does nothing to stop homosexuality and does not address the spritual condition of those trapped in a sinful lifestyle.

I can have a much bigger impact in this government or any government for that matter by praying for it's leaders. By doing this I am not yolking myself up with non-believers.

MrJim · Aug 21, 2006

Danfrey said:
The benefits of voting to make abortion illegal do nothing to address the spiritual state of the mothers involved, other than driving them further away from those "right wing Christians"

Making homosexual marriage illegal does nothing to stop homosexuality and does not address the spritual condition of those trapped in a sinful lifestyle.

I can have a much bigger impact in this government or any government for that matter by praying for it's leaders. By doing this I am not yolking myself up with non-believers.

These are good points.

Praying is not "not doing anything"...

If we did create a society of "Christian Moral Laws" run by Christian Politicians do we really think we'd have something? And is that what Jesus was after?

That's sorta what those Dominion Theology guys want...

theAmishGirl · Aug 21, 2006

That's one conservative stand I will never agree with. If we as Christians don't vote, then how will we ever see a change in the government and in the people in the direction it "should" be going?? As my mother always said (I can't believe that I'm quoting my mother on something half-way dealing with religion.) "If you don't vote, don't complain." But if I see a problem with how things are going, I'm gonna complain! and after that I'm gonna do something about it! So therefore- I think we should vote- or we'll never see a change in the world.

"Be the change you wish to see in the world." ~Ghandi

ZiSunka · Aug 21, 2006

MadFingerPainter said:
voting against abortion or homosexual marriages may benefit us eternally but i don't honestly believe this will benefit mankind because sooner or later we will get outvoted and it will go into law regardless.

Is this a prediction, or just illogical?

ZiSunka · Aug 21, 2006

Danfrey said:
The benefits of voting to make abortion illegal do nothing to address the spiritual state of the mothers involved, other than driving them further away from those "right wing Christians"

Making homosexual marriage illegal does nothing to stop homosexuality and does not address the spritual condition of those trapped in a sinful lifestyle.

I can have a much bigger impact in this government or any government for that matter by praying for it's leaders. By doing this I am not yolking myself up with non-believers.

But it's not an "either or" choice. You don't have to choose between voting against legalizing abominations OR evangelizing the population that engages in those abominations.

It isn't even and "either or" when it comes to voting or praying. I constantly do BOTH. You are allowed to pray AND have input into your government.

How is voting yoking yourself up to non-believers? Non-beleivers also shop at stores, and I bet you do that. Non-beleivers also eat, and I bet you do that. Non-believers also drive cars, and I bet you do that. Just because you do something non-believers do doesn't make you yoked to them. You know you are making a complete misapplication of that verse.

ZiSunka · Aug 21, 2006

menno said:
These are good points.

Praying is not "not doing anything"...

I never said it was. How can you really say I said that?

If we did create a society of "Christian Moral Laws" run by Christian Politicians do we really think we'd have something? And is that what Jesus was after?

That's sorta what those Dominion Theology guys want...

I didn't say the government needed to be run by Christians and you know that. You have to stop putting words in my mouth.

But can you imagine Jesus watching abortions and homosexual marriages and just standing back and saying and doing nothing besides praying? I think he would have said something in one of his sermons, anyway. I don't think Jesus was as big of a separatist as you think he was. He went to public places to do his preaching. He talked to crowds about the truth. He stood at the temple instructing people, he had a huge following of disciples, not because he said he people should ignore the happenings in the world, but because he had relevent things to say about the world.

In a sense, voting is like speaking in public about what is right and what is wrong.

If you aren't going to vote, then at least be like Jesus and speak out in public places.

Danfrey · Aug 21, 2006

WalkInHisFootsteps said:
How is voting yoking yourself up to non-believers? Non-beleivers also shop at stores, and I bet you do that. Non-beleivers also eat, and I bet you do that. Non-believers also drive cars, and I bet you do that. Just because you do something non-believers do doesn't make you yoked to them. You know you are making a complete misapplication of that verse.

If I vote for the president I am putting the Commander in Chief in power. How is this not yolking up with a non-believer? Congress is the one that is supposed to send the country to war. What happens when the person you voted for votes to send people to war? Do you claim that the person you voted for in the last election makes decisions based on biblical principles and not party lines?

Danfrey · Aug 21, 2006

WalkInHisFootsteps said:
In a sense, voting is like speaking in public about what is right and what is wrong.

Actually, voting is a secret activity. That is what the little booths are for.

WalkInHisFootsteps said:
If you aren't going to vote, then at least be like Jesus and speak out in public places.

I agree totally with making a public statement about injustice. The best statement to make is doing something about the injustice. You didn't see Mother Teresa protesting yet she made a huge statement about the poorest of poor.

MrJim · Aug 21, 2006

WalkInHisFootsteps said:
I never said it was. How can you really say I said that?

I didn't say the government needed to be run by Christians and you know that. You have to stop putting words in my mouth.

Oh stop it I'm not putting words into your mouth and I'm not inferring that you are saying them. They are my quotes.

Don't worry, whey you put your foot in your mouth you'll get all the credit

Basics of Anabaptism

Warning -- Anabaptist views

Well-Known Member

It means 'yellow dog'

in His hands

in His hands

Warning -- Anabaptist views

Legend 3/17/05

Caution: This product will argue if aggitated!

It means 'yellow dog'

It means 'yellow dog'

It means 'yellow dog'

Warning -- Anabaptist views

Warning -- Anabaptist views

Legend 3/17/05

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