Baptism.

Um... why would ANYONE say or ask if he was baptizing with sand?

The whole verse: "I baptize you with water for repentance, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."

When we enter into a relationship with Christ, we are unified with Him, and the Holy Ghost fills us and enters our hearts. We're covered with the Holy Spirit when we're Christians.

1 Corinthians 1:14-17 Why did Paul preach to thousands and baptize about 9 if not getting baptized sends you to hell after you accept Christ?

Defender of the faith I could easily answer your question about Paul. I am trying to keep this thread on track. It would be easy to get off on Holy Spirit baptism but that isnt part of this thread yet. I tell you what I am waiting for Josephus answer to my questions but, if you want to answer any of my previous questions then I will answer yours.

Cool beans, it'll wait.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death ? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death, that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin . 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him : 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord .

I believe these scriptures clearly show what I have been saying all along. You have to be bapiized in order to enter into christ death. No it is not the act of baptism by itself. First there's Grace, because if we didn't have it we could never become saved. Then we have to have faith, repentance, and we have to confess Jesus as Lord. Then we have to obedience of faith and be baptized in water which puts us into Christ Death. Again, there isn't anything magical about the water, it is our faith in the operation of God thourgh baptism that puts us into Christ.

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Please read Matt3:11-12. Here is but another example of an "oft-used-literary-device" in the Bible, the twice-told-tale. When a statment is retold, differently, for emphasis (in Genesis the Creation is told twice). (Jn3:5 & 6 is another example---"water/flesh", "Spirit/Spirit")...

"As for me, I baptize with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire." Three baptisms here. Water, spirit, fire. What is the "Fire-baptism"? The next verse explains, the "twice-told-thing". The GRAIN (those baptized in the Spirit) will be gathered into the barn (Heaven), but the CHAFF he will burn with unquenchable fire. Thus, the "baptism of fire" is Hell, for sinners.

The Greek for "baptise" is "immerse". Could Romans 6, have nothing to do with water? Could it simply mean, "immersed into JESUS"???

Well I guess Josephus isnt going to respond to my questions so I will continue you on. I want to deal with how I know that the baptism mentioned in the verses I have been using is baptism into water. Now I would think that you would agree that there is only 1 baptism today Eph 4:5. Now the question is what is the baptism? Is it a baptism of the Holy Spirit or is it Baptism in water. This is far as I can see is the only 2 choices that it could be.

Well lets begin this study with the great commisson in Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Now I want you to notice that Jesus is telling his disciples to do. He is telling them to baptize people. This means that they would be immersing these people into something. I could almost rest my case on this verse alone. When the baptism of the Holy Spirit occured a Petacost on the 12 apostles it came directly from heaven. The only other time this happened was on the house of Cornilus and again their wasnt any baptising going on by men.

Now lets turn our eyes to Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

So here we have both men and women baptized, but we dont know what kind of baptism it was yet. Was it Holy Spirit baptism?

He comes the answer in the folowing verses.
14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard
that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto
them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that
they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they
were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Now verse 16 tells us that they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Please note that however it is they are being baptized that it is not of the Holy Spirit. You see in verse 17 that they did not receive the Holy Spirit until the Apostles laid their hands on them. Just as a side note Philip could not give these people the Holy Spirit because only the Apostles had the ability to do that.

So what are these people being baptized in? Well Phillip isnt going to let us down we find the answer in verses 35-38
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same
scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they
went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch;
and he baptized him.

Here we have Philip teaching this eunuch about Jesus. Obivisly he taught him the importace of Baptism that he must be baptized in order to be buried with Christ and to become a new creature. Notice they were going along and the eunuch spots a pond or something like that and he wants to know what could keep him from being baptized. He is ready he doesnt want to wait until he gets into town where there might be some clean water because he understands the urgency to become united with Christ. Then I want you to notice we finally get our answer what it was these people have been getting baptized with. It was water. See in verse 38 They both went into the water and Philip Baptized him in that pool of water. This should be enough to convince you that the baptism spoken of in the verse in my previous post were in water. But just is case your not convinced let me go on.

Now we are going to look at Cornelius. Peter was speaking to them when the Holy Spirt was poured out on them. Now this outpouring of the Holy Spirit came from heaven and it was like/similar as to what the apostles had on the day of Pentacost. Now it was similar because it came directly from heaven and not through the laying on of hands. Also the purpose of this outpouring of the Holy Spirit from heaven was to show that Gentiles were now also to be able to become chistians. 1Cor 11:18 Now these gentiles were full of the Holy Spirit but they were not saved yet. Notice the following verses:
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be
baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of
the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Now you have to see this point. If Holy Spirit Baptism is the 1 baptism mentioned in eph 4:5 then why on earth would Peter be commanding them to be baptized in water after they were already baptized with the Holy Spirit. The answer seems obivous to me, its because the water baptism is the 1 baptism mentioned in Eph 4:5. You cant help notice the urgency of Peter here when he sees that God has included the gentiles in the plan of salvation. He ask can anybody forbid water that these gentiles should not be baptized that are now accepted by God. Again notice the substance they are to be baptised in, its water.

Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized?
And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

I just wanted to show here that these men were baptized in the name of Jesus which we know was done in water based off what I have presented so far. Then notice they did not receive the Holy Ghost until Paul laid his hands on them.

I can add more but this will be good for now I will offer another post after this one something I wrote a couple of years ago.

Here is more I hope that it is helpful.

WATER
Lets take a look at how people were saved or healed by water through obedience of faith.

First, we have Noah and his family. They had faith in God and they obeyed him. They built an ark and gathered two of every kind of animal and were saved from the wicked people around them by water. 1 Peter 320who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
Second, we have Moses leading the people out of Egypt. They make it to the Red Sea. Moses parts the Red Sea and the Israelites follow Moses through this Sea with water up on both sides of them. Then, they are saved from Pharaohs army by water. Exodus 14 28Then the waters returned and covered the chariots, the horsemen, and all the army of Pharaoh that came into the sea after them. Not so much as one of them remained. 29But the children of Israel had walked on dry land in the midst of the sea, and the waters were a wall to them on their right hand and on their left.30So the LORD saved Israel that day out of the hand of the Egyptians, and Israel saw the Egyptians dead on the seashore. This was also a form of Baptism. 1 Corinthians 101Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea.
Third, we have Naahma, which has leprosy. He is told what he can do to be rid of his leprosy. He is told to dip 7 times in the Jordan River. He was hesitant at first, but through his obedience through faith, he did it. He was healed of his leprosy after he dipped himself the 7th time. If he had only dipped 6 times he would still have is leprosy.
2 Kings 5 14Then went he down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God: and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean.
Fourth, we have Jesus being baptized by John the Baptist. Even though Jesus had nothing to repent for he did out of obedience, so that all things would be fulfilled. When he did this Gods spirit descended on him and God Spoke saying “You are My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Mark 19It came to pass in those days that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10And immediately, coming up from the water, He saw the heavens parting and the Spirit descending upon Him like a dove. 11Then a voice came from heaven, “You are My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

In all of these examples, the water itself wasn’t magic. It was the obedience through faith that made these things happen. It is this same obedience through faith that makes our baptism in water save us by washing away our sins.

1 Peter 3 18For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Here we have yet another very clear statement that Baptism saves us. How much clearer can it be said? Here Peter talks about the days of Noah and how there were 8 souls saved through water. Now he states that there is an antitype (like, representative, counterpart) that saves us, and that is Baptism. Now he explains that baptism is not removal of dirt from the body but that you are being buried with Christ and you can now have a clear conscience toward God. When you come up out of the water, your past sins have been washed away, because you have died to your old way of life. You have been raised a new creature to live for Christ. Since you have been obedient through your faith, you now have a good conscience toward God, because your sins have been washed away and you will live your life for Christ.

I take it from your silence on this topic that you now agree with me.

Only one thing to add to your exposition Cougan, though it may be that it is there and I missed it in the reading....Baptism (per water) is the process by which ones sins are washed away. Baptism (per the Holy Spirit) is the process by which we are granted authority - receiving empowerment.



Act 22:12 - 16

And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt [there], Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him. And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth. For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard. And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

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As for the question regarding Paul's baptising only nine people out of thousands - there is no reference in the Bible supporting the contention. Did Paul say "I baptised none except these (nine)"? No. He said "I baptised none of you except (these nine)" Well....as far as he could recall, that is. He does go on to say he can't remember if he baptised others among the church addressed or not. Why would it be so hard to remember if he had baptised more, if he had never performed baptisms for any other church? Could it possibly be that he had baptised so many people that he couldn't always remember clearly who and where?

Baptism is the sacrament that replaced circumcision in the Bible. It is necessary but immersion is not necessary. Sprinkling or pouring is just as effective. It would not be advisable to immerse an infant at their baptism.

Agreed! Anyone who can read and understand simple English, can clearly see the whole thing is "Symbolic" and Baptism has nothing to do with water in any other way than a symbol.

Do we literally go under the water with Christ in His physical Body? Well, no. Are we literally raised from the dead with Him in His physical Body? Well, no.

It is the Blood of Christ that washes away our sins, not any water. The term Baptism, only means to be identified with in the first place. That is what we are doing when we are baptized in the first place. We are identifying ourselves with Him symbolically, through an act portraying His death, burial, and resurection

Originally posted by heydeerman
Baptism is the sacrament that replaced circumcision in the Bible. It is necessary but immersion is not necessary. Sprinkling or pouring is just as effective. It would not be advisable to immerse an infant at their baptism.

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It would pointless and useless to baptize a baby. A baby has no sin. Can a baby or a young child belive the Jesus is the son of God or be able to repent. Can a baby confess Jesus as Lord. Can a baby or young child discern right from wrong? The answer to all of these are no. Sprinkling or pouring are not just as effective. The bible tells us that we are BURIED with christ in baptism. When ever you bury someone out in a cementary do you belive it is just as effective to pour or sprinkle dirt of them and call them buried? I doubt very seriously you will make such a claim. Re read this thread I have covered this topic of baptism very well. In fact my unaswerable question have not been answered. When I say they are unaswerable I mean that they can only have 1 answer which proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that your sins are not removed until you are baptized. Yes Baptism is symbolic of the death, burial, and resurection. You will not find one example sited in the bible that even comes close to hinting at pouring or sprinkling being an acceptable baptism. However, you will see examples where people go down into the water to baptized that is to be fully immersed. I challenge you to read this whole thread and try to show me where I have made my error on baptism. Good luck.

 

The word baptize comes from the greek word baptizmo - which means to immerse or submerge. Seeing as how the new Testament was written in Greek, and the word that's used is baptizmo, I think that's a pretty good hint at what was intended. We are supposed to be submerged or immersed in water when we are baptized. Do you really think that Phillip would have taken the Ethiopian eunuch down into the water to sprinkle it on his head? He could have done that from the chariot. (Acts 8:27-38)