Baptism question???

I think it should not be questioned, the Bible says to be baptised, so do it

What is the use of talking about it, just do it.

Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.


Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:


Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:


Act 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.


Act 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:


Act 2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:


Act 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.


Act 2:28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.


Act 2:29 Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.


Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;


Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.


Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.


Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.


Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,


Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.


Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


Act 2:37 Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?


Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.


Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.


Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls.


Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

LucasGoltz said:

How necessary is baptism to our salvation as christians? Is it a requirement or just a sacrament that gives us grace from God?

God bless,

Lucas

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Boy are you going to get varied responses here. I myself struggled with this exact question for so long. I was baptised two weeks ago. I find that I lean toward the belief that it is a requirement.

Act 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Act 22:16 'Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.'

Rom 6:1-4 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? (2) May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? (3) Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? (4) Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

Through the step of baptisim we are separated from our sin aka. the old life. Good luck in journey for this answer.

LucasGoltz said:

How necessary is baptism to our salvation as christians? Is it a requirement or just a sacrament that gives us grace from God?

God bless,

Lucas

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"Just" a sacrament that gives Grace??? That's like me saying my car is "Just" a Ferrari, isn't it?

BTW, the proper terminology for a Sacrament is something that "conveys" grace. Water (without the Word) can do nothing. Water with the Word is an Act of Creation. So, a sacrament is a conduit through which God works. It does NOT work in and of itself. GOD is the source of Grace, not the Sacrament. The Sacrament is the tool God uses to bestow His grace upon us. Very rarely in Scripture does God work "nakedly", i.e., without a tool, or a means. Baptism is the means God has established.

It is most certainly NOT an "ordinance". An "ordinance" is something we do, but Baptism is something God does. IOW, we are NOT the active party; God is acting upon us.

As for the original question: Baptism is necessary for salvation....but not absolutely necessary.

Kepler

Ok, the bible says to be baptised, so we should be baptised, you should ask yourself, why do I NOT want to be baptised? There is no good reason not to be, all the reason have something to do with fear, just do it, I promise, it is the greatest thing you could do to show your faith in Christ.

Baptism is a sacrament. It constitutes an outer, physical sign (water) of an inward, spiritual grace (sixfold):

1. Washes away all sins, original and actual
2. Makes the recipient a proper dwelling place for the Holy Spirit
3. Usually it is when the Holy Spirit comes to dwell with/in us
4. Initiates us into the Christian faith and into the Church
5. Initiates the process of theosis/regeneration
6. Marks us as Christ's own for ever, establishing an indellible characteristic upon ourself.

Scripture and Tradition both say Baptism is necessary for salvation. Reason makes that argument as well.

How important is it to baptism?

1 Peter 3:21

"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

So it save us to do that and if you read before vers 21 you can see how it can save us (vers 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

In 1 Peter 2:21 it say that we shall follow in Jesus footstep and Jesus was baptised Matthew 3:13 -15

LucasGoltz said:

How necessary is baptism to our salvation as christians? Is it a requirement or just a sacrament that gives us grace from God?

God bless,

Lucas

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The imersing part of the Baptism itself has no bearing on our salvation. It is the spiritual side of the act that will bring alvation. In other words, if you give yourself to Jesus while you are being dunked, than you are saved.
But, you can also give yourself to Jesus without being dunked and will be saved.

LucasGoltz said:

How necessary is baptism to our salvation as christians? Is it a requirement or just a sacrament that gives us grace from God?

God bless,

Lucas

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Where in the Bible does it say baptism is a requirment????
may'be you should recall the conversation that Jesus had with Nicodemus, in (John-3:4-5). Nicodemus saith unto him, how can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mothers womb, and be born?
Jesus then answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of the water; and of the spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Many people misinterpert this conversation.
When Jesus said be born of water, he was speaking of the physical birth of every human being. When a baby is comes from his mothers womb, water first comes from the womb, proceding the baby after. This implies the child was born in water are of water.

Then Jesus say born of the spirit. This is the new birth miraculously done by the Holy Spirit. At the moment a person excepts Christ the Spirit instantly does 40 things to rebirth the new believer. One of this is the Baptism of the Spirt done spiritually.

This is the only baptism needed to be saved, to say a water baptism is required is saying that we need to help God in saving us. God has done it all, and nothing we can do can complete nor undo what he has done.

Now don't get me wrong theirs nothing wrong with water baptism, for Christ himself was baptized by water so the sriptures might be fullfiled. But it never was said to be a requirment to inhert the salvation of God

lamblion said:

Where in the Bible does it say baptism is a requirment????
may'be you should recall the conversation that Jesus had with Nicodemus, in (John-3:4-5). Nicodemus saith unto him, how can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mothers womb, and be born?
Jesus then answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of the water; and of the spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Many people misinterpert this conversation.
When Jesus said be born of water, he was speaking of the physical birth of every human being. When a baby is comes from his mothers womb, water first comes from the womb, proceding the baby after. This implies the child was born in water are of water.

Then Jesus say born of the spirit. This is the new birth miraculously done by the Holy Spirit. At the moment a person excepts Christ the Spirit instantly does 40 things to rebirth the new believer. One of this is the Baptism of the Spirt done spiritually.

This is the only baptism needed to be saved, to say a water baptism is required is saying that we need to help God in saving us. God has done it all, and nothing we can do can complete nor undo what he has done.

Now don't get me wrong theirs nothing wrong with water baptism, for Christ himself was baptized by water so the sriptures might be fullfiled. But it never was said to be a requirment to inhert the salvation of God

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How is it that this preposterous and silly misinterpretation of John 3:5 continues to be spread around???

Jesus was NOT talking about physical birth. THINK ABOUT IT.

Was Jesus REALLY saying to Nicodemus, "In order to go to heaven, a REQUIREMENT is that you must first be BORN"??? That's kinda stating the obvious isn't it???

How STUPID would Jesus be if he said that???

Don't you think that Nicodemus KNEW there is no such thing as "UNBORN" or "NONEXISTANT" people in heaven???

DUH!!!!

No my friend, Jesus is MOST ASSUREDLY speaking of Water Baptism, during which God creates in us a clean heart and gives us the Gift of His Spirit.

Kepler

LucasGoltz said:

How necessary is baptism to our salvation as christians? Is it a requirement or just a sacrament that gives us grace from God?

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"Is it just a sacrament that gives us grace from God?"

Just? LOL!



MY view (for the penny it might be worth)...

Yes, it is necessary because it is commanded and seems associated with Salvation (exactly how being as yet without consensus)

No, it is not essential in the sense that one with faith in Christ but who had not recieved Baptism would, by virtue of that omission, be condemned to hell.


Oh, I agree with what you implied that it is a "means of grace."


MY $0.01...


Keep the faith! Share the love!


- Josiah


PS You'll find LOTS of threads about Baptism (or is it baptism?) here at CF. LOTS.


.

KEPLER said:

How is it that this preposterous and silly misinterpretation of John 3:5 continues to be spread around???

Jesus was NOT talking about physical birth. THINK ABOUT IT.

Was Jesus REALLY saying to Nicodemus, "In order to go to heaven, a REQUIREMENT is that you must first be BORN"??? That's kinda stating the obvious isn't it???

How STUPID would Jesus be if he said that???

Don't you think that Nicodemus KNEW there is no such thing as "UNBORN" or "NONEXISTANT" people in heaven???

DUH!!!!

No my friend, Jesus is MOST ASSUREDLY speaking of Water Baptism, during which God creates in us a clean heart and gives us the Gift of His Spirit.

Kepler

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When Jesus distingished the two seperate births, he was only telling nicodemus that all man are physically born, but only those who believe can be spiritually born.
note that if nicodemus had understood he would not have asked the question, How can a man be born again when he is old. It is obvious Jesus was speaking of two seperate births. If he was implying that the water was a water baptism, then that means a water baptism and a spiritual baptism are different, which means no one is truly saved until their baptized by water; is this true. Does God rely on us to perform a work of baptism in order to complete salvation. From what i know of the scriptures salvation is a Gift of God, not of works but of grace through Christ, were if you believe that christ died for the sin of the world and raised from the dead then you shall be saved. read (Titus-3:5)&(acts-1:5) for more!!
If you can show me that baptism is required Im all ears.

lamblion said:

When Jesus distingished the two seperate births, he was only telling nicodemus that all man are physically born, but only those who believe can be spiritually born.
note that if nicodemus had understood he would not have asked the question, How can a man be born again when he is old. It is obvious Jesus was speaking of two seperate births. If he was implying that the water was a water baptism, then that means a water baptism and a spiritual baptism are different, which means no one is truly saved until their baptized by water; is this true. Does God rely on us to perform a work of baptism in order to complete salvation. From what i know of the scriptures salvation is a Gift of God, not of works but of grace through Christ, were if you believe that christ died for the sin of the world and raised from the dead then you shall be saved. read (Titus-3:5)&(acts-1:5) for more!!
If you can show me that baptism is required Im all ears.

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1) Baptism is God's work, not ours. Therefore it cannot, under any circumstances, be understood as a "work" we perform.

2) there are numerous times in Scripture when people ask Jesus a question becasue they don't understand whet Jesus is getting at...Nicodemus' question here is one of those times.

3) Jesus said you MUST be born of water....what kind of a stupid imperative would that be for our LORD (who, by the way is omniscient, and all that) to give to Nicodemus??? Plain reason dictates that Jesus could NOT have been speaking of child birth.

4) Titus 3:5 supports my position:

Titus 3:4-7 said:

But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

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"Washing of rebirth" is a synonym for "water baptism". Paul uses the SAME greek word (loutron; which ASSUMES the use of water by its very definition) in Eph 5:25-6:

Ephesians 5:25-27 said:

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

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There is ABSOLUTELY no doubt, my friend, that in both his letters to Titus and the Ephesians, that Paul is speaking of Water Baptism.

Time for you to rethink things. Until you understand that Baptism is not our work, but something God does to and for us, you will not understand this.

Cheers,

Kepler

If someone has access to water there is no excuse not to be baptized as the Bible in numerous places says to be. If your a theif on the cross when you first believed, i'm sure it will be understood by God that you couldn't be baptized.

KEPLER said:

1) Baptism is God's work, not ours. Therefore it cannot, under any circumstances, be understood as a "work" we perform.

2) there are numerous times in Scripture when people ask Jesus a question becasue they don't understand whet Jesus is getting at...Nicodemus' question here is one of those times.

3) Jesus said you MUST be born of water....what kind of a stupid imperative would that be for our LORD (who, by the way is omniscient, and all that) to give to Nicodemus??? Plain reason dictates that Jesus could NOT have been speaking of child birth.

4) Titus 3:5 supports my position:

"Washing of rebirth" is a synonym for "water baptism". Paul uses the SAME greek word (loutron; which ASSUMES the use of water by its very definition) in Eph 5:25-6:

There is ABSOLUTELY no doubt, my friend, that in both his letters to Titus and the Ephesians, that Paul is speaking of Water Baptism.

Time for you to rethink things. Until you understand that Baptism is not our work, but something God does to and for us, you will not understand this.

Cheers,

Kepler

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I agree that Baptism is a work from God, no doubt, but that is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. In Titus i believe this is what paul is Talking about. Because it says Washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy spirit.

The word "baptism" connotes the idea of identifacation, basically the identifacation of one thing with another resulting in a change. A baptism of water is symbolic the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

If you dont agree thats fine, i enjoyed the conversation. is there anything else worth conversating about you enjoy?????

lamblion said:

I agree that Baptism is a work from God, no doubt, but that is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. In Titus i believe this is what paul is Talking about. Because it says Washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy spirit.

The word "baptism" connotes the idea of identifacation, basically the identifacation of one thing with another resulting in a change. A baptism of water is symbolic the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

If you dont agree thats fine, i enjoyed the conversation. is there anything else worth conversating about you enjoy?????

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I don't disagree that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is part of what Paul is talking about, but you have to ask yourself, why does Paul use a word which necessitates water, and why does he specifically mention water in Ephesians?

Many today try to say there was no difference between Christ's water baptism and John the Baptist's. John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. (Mk.1:4)
"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance:..." (Mt.3:11)

Jesus was administering this same baptism near the end of John the Baptist's carreer. He administered it to His immediate disciples who in turn administered it upon their converts. The only difference between the two was that Jesus was administering it (via His disciples Jn.4:2) by His own authority (in His own name).

After Christ's resurrection He commanded His disciples to, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit:" (Mt.28:19)

Now, many are taught today (by implication) that everyone that was water baptized by Christ and His disciples....had to be re-baptized after His resurrection! They imply through their teaching, that water baptism puts one's soul into contact with Christ's blood. Since Christ had not shed His blood till the day He was stripped, whipped, beaten, and then crucified, their teaching implies that He and His disciples were doing the work of John the Baptist when they were making and water baptizing more disciples than he was.

The real truth that the water baptism that Christ was administering in Aenon near to Salim (Jn.3:22-23), was later to be coined the Baptism of the Great Commission, is found in Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,...

This verse teaches that everyone who was a disciple of John the Baptist was commanded to become a disciple of Jesus Christ and be re-baptized, this time in His name. That everyone who was a disciple of the Pharisees was commanded to become a disciple of Jesus Christ and be baptized in His name.

Later on, it is recorded that every time a disciple of John the Baptist was found, they were re-baptized, this time in the name of Jesus Christ. (Acts 18:25, 19:1-5)

Therefore, the water baptism of Mt.28:19 (Great Commission) was first administered by Christ near the end of John the Baptist's mission:

John 3:22 (New International Version)


John the Baptist's Testimony About Jesus

22After this, Jesus and his disciples went out into the Judean countryside, where he spent some time with them, and baptized.
23Now John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because there was plenty of water, and people were constantly coming to be baptized.


26They came to John and said to him, "Rabbi, that man who was with you on the other side of the Jordan—the one you testified about—well, he is baptizing, and everyone is going to him."



John 4

Jesus Talks With a Samaritan Woman

1The Pharisees heard that Jesus was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John,
----------------------------------------------------

Water baptism is not essential to one's salvation.

LucasGoltz said:

How necessary is baptism to our salvation as christians? Is it a requirement or just a sacrament that gives us grace from God?

God bless,

Lucas

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Neither. Baptism is a strictly symbolic ordinance that neither saves, nor adds to salvation.

It is simply a way to declare our decision to follow Christ and our identification with the local church.

MikeMcK said:

Neither. Baptism is a strictly symbolic ordinance that neither saves, nor adds to salvation.

It is simply a way to declare our decision to follow Christ and our identification with the local church.

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Thats what ive been trying to explain to all. it is symbolic. Thanks