atheist having a "spiritual experience"

sparkle123 · Aug 23, 2015

I am defining spiritual experience as including the paranormal, but also an overwhelming sense of compassion, ecstatic experiences, the experience of presences, etc.
If one identifies as an atheist after such an experience does there have to be a material explanation for the phenomena? For example, the experience is attributable to drugs, or there is a purely neurological explanation.
If one does believe they've tapped into some kind of non-material or higher reality, can one still rightly be called an atheist? (please, no talk of Buddhism. It traditionally contains theistic and devotional elements).
In general, what is the atheist take on spiritual experience?

Ana the Ist · Aug 23, 2015

Never had one.

I've had epiphanies, moments of "extreme clarity", moments of altered states of perception....but never anything which fell outside of what I would call the normal range of experience.

Archaeopteryx · Aug 23, 2015

sparkle123 said:
I am defining spiritual experience as including the paranormal, but also an overwhelming sense of compassion, ecstatic experiences, the experience of presences, etc.
If one identifies as an atheist after such an experience does there have to be a material explanation for the phenomena? For example, the experience is attributable to drugs, or there is a purely neurological explanation.
If one does believe they've tapped into some kind of non-material or higher reality, can one still rightly be called an atheist? (please, no talk of Buddhism. It traditionally contains theistic and devotional elements).
In general, what is the atheist take on spiritual experience?

Here is Sam Harris' take on it.

DogmaHunter · Aug 24, 2015

sparkle123 said:
I am defining spiritual experience as including the paranormal, but also an overwhelming sense of compassion, ecstatic experiences, the experience of presences, etc.
If one identifies as an atheist after such an experience does there have to be a material explanation for the phenomena? For example, the experience is attributable to drugs, or there is a purely neurological explanation.
If one does believe they've tapped into some kind of non-material or higher reality, can one still rightly be called an atheist? (please, no talk of Buddhism. It traditionally contains theistic and devotional elements).
In general, what is the atheist take on spiritual experience?

The problem is that "spiritual" is a very ill defined word.
Even among theists... when a buddhist, rastafarian, muslim, hindu and christian use the word, they will all be talking about something different.

I actually don't use that word. Precisely because I find it to be rather meaningless.

AHH who-stole-my-name · Aug 24, 2015

From my time at a Secular forum and talks with many of my Atheist friends, I would say that they would go through and exhaustive regiment of skepticism, before even considering anything more than something based in the natural world. Most Atheists are the way they are for a reason and that is not just to stand up to religion beliefs.

I know it's fashionable for people on either side of the region line to mock each other, but that's usually by those who came for the purpose of mocking instead of trying to understand each other. Most Atheists as are most christians are good people with values and ideals that might not be that far from the Christian community. You just don't hear about them much because the media would rather put on the "Anything other than Christian" crowd which are every bit as radical as some who claim to be Christian, but want to stand out instead of standing up.

AHH who-stole-my-name · Aug 24, 2015

DogmaHunter said:
The problem is that "spiritual" is a very ill defined word.
Even among theists... when a buddhist, rastafarian, muslim, hindu and christian use the word, they will all be talking about something different.

I actually don't use that word. Precisely because I find it to be rather meaningless.

I think the word Spiritual is a dabbling word for those who like the idea of more realms of existence but no real faith in any of them. It's a mental playground where people come to amuse themselves

Eudaimonist · Aug 24, 2015

sparkle123 said:
If one identifies as an atheist after such an experience does there have to be a material explanation for the phenomena? For example, the experience is attributable to drugs, or there is a purely neurological explanation.

One can simply say "I don't know", but I personally assume that there is a "neurological" explanation for the experience, just as I would assume for dreams. Why not? Human psychology is complex, and much of mental activity happens "beneath the surface" of one's conscious mind.

If one does believe they've tapped into some kind of non-material or higher reality, can one still rightly be called an atheist?

Yes, as long as it has nothing to do with gods.

In general, what is the atheist take on spiritual experience?

Speaking for myself, it's all part of the richness of human psychology. I don't think that "higher realms" have anything to do with it.

eudaimonia,

Mark

SkyWriting · Aug 24, 2015

sparkle123 said:
I am defining spiritual experience as including the paranormal, but also an overwhelming sense of compassion, ecstatic experiences, the experience of presences, etc.
If one identifies as an atheist after such an experience does there have to be a material explanation for the phenomena? For example, the experience is attributable to drugs, or there is a purely neurological explanation.
If one does believe they've tapped into some kind of non-material or higher reality, can one still rightly be called an atheist? (please, no talk of Buddhism. It traditionally contains theistic and devotional elements).
In general, what is the atheist take on spiritual experience?

Numbers of people who claim to be religious is falling steadily.
Numbers of people who call themselves "Spiritual but not religious" (SBNR) is soaring.

GrowingSmaller · Aug 24, 2015

I had a religious epiphany. It relaly opened my eyes. Afterwards I was clinging to faith with my life, whereas I had been a h/c skeptic and nihilist.

I accept I dont know for sure that God was involved. It could be an illusion. I suppose than my primary reason - defined secularly -for continuing to believe is improved social and personal functioning.

I am sure enough that there will be bain based theology, cognitive theology etc, and altered mechanisms of perception for "faith based realities". What that "proves" though is as open to question as any other opinion about a transcendent God...

But, well, erm... more tea, logic and theology please:

fat wee robin · Aug 24, 2015

It is not an illusion

GrowingSmaller said:
I had a religious epiphany. It relaly opened my eyes. Afterwards I was clinging to faith with my life, whereas I had been a h/c skeptic and nihilist.

I accept I dont know for sure that God was involved. It could be an illusion. I suppose than my primary reason - defined secularly -for continuing to believe is improved social and personal functioning.

I am sure enough that there will be bain based theology, cognitive theology etc, and altered mechanisms of perception for "faith based realities". What that "proves" though is as open to question as any other opinion about a transcendent God...

But, well, erm... more tea, logic and theology please:

It is not an illusion that God organises the basis of everything and leaves us to fill in the détails .Free will .
I know that we live in a school organised by God to teach us ,to draw us to Him ,and we have to pass through many expériences before we can 'connect' with God.
Atheists, if they are reasonably good people can enjoy many of the 'good things ' of life , but they cannot enter into life 'eternal' at a high level as they are 'trapped in a lower 'materialistic world ', which they believe to be 'reality' ,but is in fact just the lower level of functioning in the sensate world .
That is why if you really study you will find no high level ,breakthrough scientists who are lifetime atheists .God bans them from the highest level as we evolve . It is in the judeo /christian tradition that all this 'scientific advancement' took place ;Jesus did say, that we would be saved by the Jews ,and we have been .

I only know Louis Armstrong singing "What a wonderful world",and it is too ,and his voice added to it, being so .

essentialsaltes · Aug 24, 2015

sparkle123 said:
In general, what is the atheist take on spiritual experience?

Atheism is simply a position about gods. It does not entail any particular position on 'spiritual' experiences. Some atheists believe in psychic powers and ghosts. Some do not.

GrimKingGrim · Aug 24, 2015

I don't even know how to define spiritual so.

an overwhelming sense of compassion, ecstatic experiences, the experience of presences, etc.

That doesn't really strike me as paranormal or outta the ordinary. "Presences" is something more along the lines of perception of a certain feeling. It's comparable to that strange dream I had the other day where I was vomiting up black. I literally felt the sensation of vomit. I don't feel the presence of other people in the room other than my knowledge of them being there. And that's a feeling of the mind. So if I don't have any "knowledge" of a "presence" (I.E. I don't believe in ghosts.) I won't feel this sensation.

Some people will label those as spiritual based on their definition of something they perceived. I just call them crazy thoughts.

paulm50 · Aug 24, 2015

I was knocked down by a car and had been knocked out. Or so people were saying.

I remember clearly hovering above my body and seeing the onlookers around me. Then nothing, woke up in the hospital. Maybe imagination, maybe I was not completely out of it. Didn't meet angels.

The brain is a powerful tool, we use 100% of it. Do we know what it's all doing?

Paradoxum · Aug 24, 2015

I wouldn't say that feelings of compassion, or awe, are spiritual.

If an atheists believes in a 'higher realm', you could probably still call them an atheist if they still don't believe in a God.

MehGuy · Aug 25, 2015

I can induce spiritual experiences pretty easily. Personally I find them to all be in my mind.

I do quite enjoy them. I was big on spiritual experiences when I was a Christian, and I'm not sure how to frame that magic as an atheist.

Eudaimonist · Aug 25, 2015

MehGuy said:
I was big on spiritual experiences when I was a Christian, and I'm not sure how to frame that magic as an atheist.

Well, there is this:

eudaimonia,

Mark

MehGuy · Aug 25, 2015

Eudaimonist said:
Well, there is this:

eudaimonia,

Mark

Despite his mind provoking and beautiful poetry, Carl Sagan can only keep me suspended in spiritual intoxication for a limited amount of time.

I've been spoiled. Towards the end of my Christian faith I was heaping dangerous amounts of coal into my spiritual engine. Almost every waking moment of my life during the last year of my faith was in intense spiritual ecstasy. Primarily sadomasochistic mysticism. The feelings were so intense I seriously feared brain damage. Since then I have read studies on s/m spirituality, and was shocked to learn how much activity the brain engaged during such moments, including the restriction of blood flow, so uh.. lol.

During those times my IQ was pretty dismal, which makes it harder for spiritual people to wake up, IMO.

There have been some Catholic saints who reported being in almost constant spiritual ecstasy (with a huge s/m bent IMO), although some of them died early of malnutrition and sometimes they engaged in it so hard their gums were bleeding and all their teeth rotted out, lol.

I do have to say, the human mind can reach very intense emotional heights.

quatona · Aug 25, 2015

sparkle123 said:
I am defining spiritual experience as including the paranormal, but also an overwhelming sense of compassion, ecstatic experiences, the experience of presences, etc.
If one identifies as an atheist after such an experience does there have to be a material explanation for the phenomena? For example, the experience is attributable to drugs, or there is a purely neurological explanation.

There doesn´t have to be, but I guess that until the options of such an explanation are safely ruled out, there is not much point in declaring the event "spiritual, para-normal, non-normal, higher reality...". Particularly since declaring something as such isn´t an explanation of sorts but merely the attempt to make "I don´t know" look like an explanation.

If one does believe they've tapped into some kind of non-material or higher reality, can one still rightly be called an atheist?

Sure, as long as the explanation-of-the-gap they prefer doesn´t involve gods.
(please, no talk of Buddhism. It traditionally contains theistic and devotional elements).

In general, what is the atheist take on spiritual experience?

Last night I dreamt of a girl whom I had neither seen nor contacted nor thought of for more than ten years. Does that require me to conclude there´s a "higher realm"?
When we observe swarm intelligence in a bee state, does that suggest there´s a "higher realm"?
I don´t think so. What would be won by labeling it as such, anyway?

Neogaia777 · Aug 25, 2015

sparkle123 said:
I am defining spiritual experience as including the paranormal, but also an overwhelming sense of compassion, ecstatic experiences, the experience of presences, etc.
If one identifies as an atheist after such an experience does there have to be a material explanation for the phenomena? For example, the experience is attributable to drugs, or there is a purely neurological explanation.
If one does believe they've tapped into some kind of non-material or higher reality, can one still rightly be called an atheist? (please, no talk of Buddhism. It traditionally contains theistic and devotional elements).
In general, what is the atheist take on spiritual experience?

Here is some of my spiritual experiences:

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...periencing-part-of-a-pm-conversation.7843548/

God Bless!

juvenissun · Aug 25, 2015

essentialsaltes said:
Atheism is simply a position about gods. It does not entail any particular position on 'spiritual' experiences. Some atheists believe in psychic powers and ghosts. Some do not.

That is funny. How many atheists believe that there is something called ghost? Are you one of them?

atheist having a "spiritual experience"

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