Atheism (2)

Dave Ellis · Jul 2, 2012

She converted on the morality argument? really?

I'd never heard of her either, so I have no idea if she was generally rational and informed, or just some chick with a blog.... but to convert based on an argument that's been repeatedly debunked would make me think more towards the latter option.

Either way, it's a non-story. People convert to Christianity, and de-convert from any religion every day, the fact she happened to have a blog isn't really relevant. I'd be interested to hear what the exact argument was that caused her to change her position though.

Dave Ellis · Jul 2, 2012

gradyll said:
just sayin, that some people get so mad at God that they eventually started believing.

You would have to first believe God exists in order to get mad at him....

If someone is "mad at God", they are by definition not Atheists.

createdtoworship · Jul 2, 2012

Dave Ellis said:
You would have to first believe God exists in order to get mad at him....

If someone is "mad at God", they are by definition not Atheists.

reminds me of a story of a teen ager goin to a marilyn manson concert and she came back a thiest.

She said, how can someone be so mad at God if He doesn't exist!

true story.

Gadarene · Jul 2, 2012

gradyll said:
reminds me of a story of a teen ager goin to a marilyn manson concert and she came back a thiest.

She said, how can someone be so mad at God if He doesn't exist!

true story.

Like we said, people don't always convert for smart reasons.

BuffMonkey5 · Jul 2, 2012

Dave Ellis said:
You would have to first believe God exists in order to get mad at him....

If someone is "mad at God", they are by definition not Atheists.

It's true. Usually an atheist isn't "mad at God," but rather they are upset at religious ideologies, truth based off of mere authority, and all of the ramifications that follow these things.

Belk · Jul 2, 2012

Baam said:
atheists

theist.

createdtoworship · Jul 2, 2012

Gadarene said:
Like we said, people don't always convert for smart reasons.

so your saying that you know of conversions that were by your definition smart?

tell me a few.

Going Merry · Jul 2, 2012

Belk said:
theist.

Gadarene · Jul 2, 2012

gradyll said:
so your saying that you know of conversions that were by your definition smart?

tell me a few.

I don't know of any smart reasons to convert to theism. I have come across some bad reasons to convert to atheism. My statement can be applied both ways.

createdtoworship · Jul 2, 2012

Gadarene said:
I don't know of any smart reasons to convert to theism. I have come across some bad reasons to convert to atheism. My statement can be applied both ways.

so yours is an appeal to ignorance?

Going Merry · Jul 2, 2012

Gadarene said:
I don't know of any smart reasons to convert to theism. I have come across some bad reasons to convert to atheism. My statement can be applied both ways.

From the atheist standpoint - converting to theism is bad because it goes against science, or its irrational, faith is not good etc.

from the theist stand point - converting to atheism is bad because you go to hell, you are cursed, you pretty much are all the bad things the bible says.. and well we also view it as irrational; the faithelss thing

Non sequitur · Jul 2, 2012

Dave Ellis said:
She converted on the morality argument? really?

I'd never heard of her either, so I have no idea if she was generally rational and informed, or just some chick with a blog.... but to convert based on an argument that's been repeatedly debunked would make me think more towards the latter option.

Either way, it's a non-story. People convert to Christianity, and de-convert from any religion every day, the fact she happened to have a blog isn't really relevant. I'd be interested to hear what the exact argument was that caused her to change her position though.

Very odd indeed.

She gives very vague and wordy (yet empty) explanations.

Here's the conversion moment, in all it's glory. Have fun wading through it

Ive heard some explanations that try to bake morality into the natural world by reaching for evolutionary psychology. They argue that moral dispositions are evolutionarily triumphant over selfishness, or they talk about group selection, or something else. Usually, these proposed solutions radically misunderstand a) evolution b) moral philosophy or c) both. I didnt think the answer was there. My friend pressed me to stop beating up on other peoples explanations and offer one of my own.

I dont know, I said. Ive got bupkis.
Your best guess.
I havent got one.
You must have some idea.
I dont know. Ive got nothing. I guess Morality just loves me or something.

Ok, ok, yes, I heard what I just said. Give me a second and let me decide if I believe it.

It turns out I did.

I believed that the Moral Law wasnt just a Platonic truth, abstract and distant. It turns out I actually believed it was some kind of Person, as well as Truth. And there was one religion that seemed like the most promising way to reach back to that living Truth. I asked my friend what he suggest we do now, and we prayed the night office of the Liturgy of the Hours together (Ive kept up with that since). Then I suggested hugs and playing Mumford and Sons really, really loudly.

Weak...

Gadarene · Jul 2, 2012

gradyll said:
so yours is an appeal to ignorance?

I see pointing out fallacies still isn't your forte.

Anyway - nope. Never claimed there could never be any good reasons because none are presented, only that there exist some bad reasons for conversion.

createdtoworship · Jul 2, 2012

Dave Ellis said:
She converted on the morality argument? really?

I'd never heard of her either, so I have no idea if she was generally rational and informed, or just some chick with a blog.... but to convert based on an argument that's been repeatedly debunked would make me think more towards the latter option.

Either way, it's a non-story. People convert to Christianity, and de-convert from any religion every day, the fact she happened to have a blog isn't really relevant. I'd be interested to hear what the exact argument was that caused her to change her position though.

the fact that she had a blog solidifies that she was originally an athiest, and not a hidden catholic.

createdtoworship · Jul 2, 2012

Gadarene said:
I see pointing out fallacies still isn't your forte.

Anyway - nope. Never claimed there could never be any good reasons because none are presented, only that there exist some bad reasons for conversion.

how can you recognize a bad argument if you don't have any good arguments to contrast with?

Gadarene · Jul 2, 2012

Baam said:
From the atheist standpoint - converting to theism is bad because it goes against science, or its irrational, faith is not good etc.

from the theist stand point - converting to atheism is bad because you go to hell, you are cursed, you pretty much are all the bad things the bible says.. and well we also view it as irrational; the faithelss thing

Not really what I was referring to.

There are no good reasons for conversion to theism in that there are no good arguments or evidence for it. I have seen conversion to atheism for bad reasons - the mad at God/angry at a few believers line, which isn't particularly robust, although people do convert to theism for similarly flawed reasons.

Gadarene · Jul 2, 2012

gradyll said:
how can you recognize a bad argument if you don't have any good arguments to contrast with?

It's called logic. Look it up.

Gadarene · Jul 2, 2012

gradyll said:
the fact that she had a blog solidifies that she was originally an athiest, and not a hidden catholic.

Ah yes, those atheists and their tendency to have blogs.

Belk · Jul 2, 2012

Baam said:
From the atheist standpoint - converting to theism is bad because it goes against science, or its irrational, faith is not good etc.

Well, from most of the atheists I have known science does not enter into it. Science is a very powerful but limited tool that really can not answer questions about anything other then how the physical world operates. I think most of us simply have not found any evidence presented for a god concept that we found compelling.

Baam said:
from the theist stand point - converting to atheism is bad because you go to hell, you are cursed, you pretty much are all the bad things the bible says.. and well we also view it as irrational; the faithelss thing

True, but then most theists I have talked to found evidence that they felt was compelling. Though there used to be fairly regular deconversions on this board when GA was open and people would put their evidence out to be questioned.

createdtoworship · Jul 2, 2012

Gadarene said:
Ah yes, those atheists and their tendency to have blogs.

true, might as well convert everyone. you know?

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